acl65pilot

HA HA HA!

I suspect they are just keeping their powder dry.

Bucking Bar

Our MEC & Delta flushed 415 Compass pilots without even blinking.

I think the litmus test for outrage around here is "is it below my seniority" ? If the answer to that question is "yes" then just about any behavior is considered "acceptable." So, when it comes to Delta and ALPA and something like a 717, absolutely nothing would surprise me. The difference between a 717 and a E175 is scant.

Like the frog in the pot, the incremental scope sales have avoided really scaring anyone because we get used to the new environment. However, I recall the first day I spent with the CRJ700 prototype and how it sure seemed like a MD-90. Amazing that airplane was being outsourced. Today, it is considered the "small" RJ. Incremental-ism. I can almost hear Chuck Giambusso and Bill Buergey saying, "but hey, that's not what we had in mind." However, when you decided against unity ... the result is a mathematical certainty.

From a corporate perspective Delta needs to get some guys on board with less longevity. We've got topped out First Officers on our smallest equipment. More efficient to have guys on year one pay there and have the 12 year guys on widebodies where they earn their keep with higher ASM production.

Check Essential

You get paid for whichever trip has the higher value. (Section 11.B.5.)

acl65pilot

All good points Bar, but as you know CPS was off our seniority list, and as a result most did not see that as a direct loss of Delta Pilot jobs. Second, they see it as DCI, and therefore not Delta Pilot Jobs. Third, no one sees the 717 or anything about 76 seats that way, and there would be outrage. DAL knows that.

As for needed new bodies, yes, I agree, and it will happen soon enough. When it does we will not stop hiring for decades.

Bucking Bar

• As a result of a scope sale
• The credits for which were taken away in bankruptcy (we should have gotten those jobs back, just a lessor repossess an aircraft from the lessee. We owned those jobs)
• We represented them

Pragmatically, we passed on recalling those Reps. Perhaps Section 8 should have been given consideration.

Check Essential

We didn't need to recall the guy who made the Compass decision.
We made him National president instead.

Bucking Bar

Don't know why, but that's funny.

... and thus far, he has been a good President.

We will never know why Reps voted against their pilots, unless they chose to tell us. Perhaps ACL was right, it boiled down to pilots represented by our MEC not being perceived as pilots with the right to be represented by our MEC.

We'll never know on Moak's level (without subpoena power), but my hunch is that there was a quid pro quo on his activities that effected scope and our mid contract improvements. Moak has been better than Dick Cheney at keeping secrets. A Saudi, indoctrinated and supported from Afghanistan attacks America, so lets declare war on Iraq ... and hey what do you know, my old Company has operations right next door and you can outsource the war to them, what providence! (Haliburton's bills from 03 to 06, $17.2 Billion, next largest contractor Dyn Corp, $1.44) Moak gets contract improvements (which I am grateful for) that justify his promotion, but we've got to clean up a "representational mess" and "clarify scope language" as around 600 jobs go out the door and we stop hiring for a few years.

... and before anyone gets mad, I'm admitting what I do not know and can't prove. However, it is amazing how these fortuitous accidents come to pass.

What makes it more difficult now is that we are in formal Section 6 and the transparency is much greater ... that's a good thing, but at the same time it makes back room horse trading more difficult.

LandGreen2

Great, thanks

sailingfun

I would not say we flushed those pilots. In fact we carefully made sure that every one would have his flow up honored and become a Delta pilot. There was a lot more to the representation issue then has been posted here. There were very strong legal reasons why the setup we had could potentially bite us in the butt later. Those 415 Compass pilots were not flushed and are well protected in the most important aspect which was the flowup.

sailingfun

The pay rates in the 01 contract were virtually fixed in stone before negotiations even started. The 3B6 rates on the 73N and 777 locked up what the final rates were going to end up being. Scope was the last issue settled in that contract and in the Chapter 11. Both long after pay. You keep repeating scope was sold. That does not make it true. Scope was certainly a massive concession but the continued statement that it was sold for pay does not match the facts.