Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-08-2012, 04:53 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 109
FTB,
You're right on! Just some round numbers:
255 70-76 Seat aircraft (you can throw 6 seats back in the other 100 jets)
12 hours / day block (assumes no spares and all jets fly every day)
365 Days / Year
$100 / Hr more to operate at mainline (yeah I know--it would be no where near this)
255*12*365*100 = $111M / year
Subtract out all the overhead, inflexibility, other costs associated with operating on another certificate. Gained synergies, extra seats,....
All this outsourcing is saving DAL less than 20M/qtr! Get this stuff back to mainline! By the way, the above are extremely conservative numbers!
You're right on! Just some round numbers:
255 70-76 Seat aircraft (you can throw 6 seats back in the other 100 jets)
12 hours / day block (assumes no spares and all jets fly every day)
365 Days / Year
$100 / Hr more to operate at mainline (yeah I know--it would be no where near this)
255*12*365*100 = $111M / year
Subtract out all the overhead, inflexibility, other costs associated with operating on another certificate. Gained synergies, extra seats,....
All this outsourcing is saving DAL less than 20M/qtr! Get this stuff back to mainline! By the way, the above are extremely conservative numbers!
04-08-2012, 04:59 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Are we really supposed to believe having 7 airlines with overlapping everything plus a guaranteed profit and costing us in so many ways, many unexpected, is more affordable than a $57 increase per hour in pilot cost or a 2/10ths of 1 cent increase in CASM for a CRJ-900 or E175?
What is that? $32M a year on the entire 76 seat fleet? A 1.5% loss of a near $2B profit before you count synergies?
Seems as if it would make financial sense to combine DCI's together with DAL? Or at the least take the most profitable flying and combine it (all 70+ seaters to mainline)? No staple, no merger, just take the planes and hire for them.
What is that? $32M a year on the entire 76 seat fleet? A 1.5% loss of a near $2B profit before you count synergies?
Seems as if it would make financial sense to combine DCI's together with DAL? Or at the least take the most profitable flying and combine it (all 70+ seaters to mainline)? No staple, no merger, just take the planes and hire for them.
Given that reality, the reason they have "7 airlines with overlapping everything" is the Comair strike. That disastrous strike was handled so horribly (on both sides) and so incredibly costly that management vowed "never again". They will never allow a single connection carrier pilot group to get that tight of a stranglehold over a hub. That strike led directly to the slow death of Comair and the slow death of CVG as a hub.
That's the real legacy of the RJDC boys and their captive MEC at Comair.
04-08-2012, 05:03 AM
Kerbal Rocket Surgeon
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DTW 717A
Posts: 1,099
You forgot GoJet. Easy to do, since they are such a "high quality" operation and don't show up on the radar much.
04-08-2012, 05:37 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Delta Air Lines is considering a "blue sky" theory for how to meet future pilot demands. Called "CAPT," for Civil Airline Pilot Training programme, the carrier stresses the idea is conceptual in nature and that it is not committed to the implementation, nor is it engaged in discussions with potential sponsors.
Speaking at the World Aviation Training conference in Orlando, Florida on 19 April, Arnie Kraby, Delta's manager of pilot selection, said a dramatic pilot shortage is a "gathering storm" that industry must address. Delta alone in the next 15 years will lose 7,600 pilots who will reach age-65 and retire, says Kraby.
CAPT would mainly look to high-tier college aviation programmes as means of cultivating pilots. "Statistical data indicates that a quality college education from a top-tier university or college provides us with a much better pilot in terms of fewer training failures, overall performance and reliability," notes Kraby.
The programme would include advanced jet aircraft simulation training and would be on par with military training, which produces skilled pilots qualified to fly high-performance aircraft in a shorter period compared with the civil sector, says Kraby. He is a former US Air Force pilot who flew Delta aircraft for 38 years,
"First we need to educate, mentor and train students," says Kraby. The CAPT programme would invite stakeholders across industry to come onboard as sponsors and jointly work out solutions. One of the first goals would be to build an outreach programme focused on middle- and high schools in an effort to stir up enthusiasm for the pilot profession.
CAPT candidates would be carefully screened to choose only those who have skills necessary to become a pilot. The candidate would have to maintain a 2.75 GPA, and 3.0 GPA for aviation courses. Upon earning a degree, the candidate would be required stay on as CAPT member and accrue 1,000 hours as a flight instructor at the university, thus providing a stable workforce for the school and to acquire FAA-required flight hours.
Graduates of the programme would be guaranteed an interview at a sponsoring regional airline. Then, after meeting regional airline requirements and logging required number of hours for a mainline slot (Delta requires 1,200 hours), CAPT would offer an interview at a major airline sponsor-- "another light at the end of the tunnel", says Kraby.
With aviation training costs running $80,000-$100,000, Kraby stresses: "We've [industry] got to provide financial assistance for students if we are to get the [pilot] numbers." The programme might require that student loans be guaranteed by the sponsoring organisation. Another solution might be to have loans reduced by 5% per year up to a maximum of 50% for each year the candidate works for a sponsoring airline.
04-08-2012, 05:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Although its a pet project here on APC, I don't think there's any chance that Delta will ever "combine DCIs together with DAL". For a multitude of reasons.
Given that reality, the reason they have "7 airlines with overlapping everything" is the Comair strike. That disastrous strike was handled so horribly (on both sides) and so incredibly costly that management vowed "never again". They will never allow a single connection carrier pilot group to get that tight of a stranglehold over a hub. That strike led directly to the slow death of Comair and the slow death of CVG as a hub.
That's the real legacy of the RJDC boys and their captive MEC at Comair.
Given that reality, the reason they have "7 airlines with overlapping everything" is the Comair strike. That disastrous strike was handled so horribly (on both sides) and so incredibly costly that management vowed "never again". They will never allow a single connection carrier pilot group to get that tight of a stranglehold over a hub. That strike led directly to the slow death of Comair and the slow death of CVG as a hub.
That's the real legacy of the RJDC boys and their captive MEC at Comair.
It isn't our problem now, but it could end up influencing the sovereignty of DAL domestic feed issues if not kept in check.
04-08-2012, 06:12 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Happy Easter to my APC brethren. Was hoping to be home today, but someone called in sick, so I'll be home tonight.
04-08-2012, 06:54 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Happy Easter to all!!!!
picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head with warm Jack poured all over it.
picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head with warm Jack poured all over it.
04-08-2012, 07:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,899
Nu,
Slowplay's answer is a half answer to a question that was not specific enough. I believe the resolution that addressed this was AI 11-95 from the Nov MEC Mtg (look on the comm committe page under resolutions, can't copy from my iPad). It was to study and report back on accounting practices and costs associated with various DCI flying to determine the true operating costs.
It was NOT a study of whether 76 seat flying, aka E-175, could be performed at mainline, with seat, route, GW limits and other restrictions lifted, and duplicate managerial and other costs eliminated, and at what pay rate that could still allow a margin for the company, per Sailing's post.
I believe that someone at ALPA has already decided they don't want to pursue this because while perhaps not a negative cost item, might detract from other possible PWA gains, so the question is not being seriously considered. Of course the company doesn't want to go there because with PCL in BK, they can keep whipsawing the DCI costs even lower. So we'll put them off the scent, trot out a few old power points and brush them off and say its not cost effective.
I asked my LEC reps if any analysis as above has been done and they said not that they had seen. I also asked if there was any truth to the rumors of letting the company outsource further 76 seaters and was told they cannot discuss negotiation specifics. ****?!?
My experience is that reps will usually tell you NO if there is no truth to a rumor, but when they can't discusses means BOHICA
Slowplay's answer is a half answer to a question that was not specific enough. I believe the resolution that addressed this was AI 11-95 from the Nov MEC Mtg (look on the comm committe page under resolutions, can't copy from my iPad). It was to study and report back on accounting practices and costs associated with various DCI flying to determine the true operating costs.
It was NOT a study of whether 76 seat flying, aka E-175, could be performed at mainline, with seat, route, GW limits and other restrictions lifted, and duplicate managerial and other costs eliminated, and at what pay rate that could still allow a margin for the company, per Sailing's post.
I believe that someone at ALPA has already decided they don't want to pursue this because while perhaps not a negative cost item, might detract from other possible PWA gains, so the question is not being seriously considered. Of course the company doesn't want to go there because with PCL in BK, they can keep whipsawing the DCI costs even lower. So we'll put them off the scent, trot out a few old power points and brush them off and say its not cost effective.
I asked my LEC reps if any analysis as above has been done and they said not that they had seen. I also asked if there was any truth to the rumors of letting the company outsource further 76 seaters and was told they cannot discuss negotiation specifics. ****?!?
My experience is that reps will usually tell you NO if there is no truth to a rumor, but when they can't discusses means BOHICA
Lots of half truths and junk science getting floated around, and when people ask who is saying what, the only answer is "top men"
"who?"
"top....men"
Nu
04-08-2012, 07:29 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Sailing's post and the thoughts of others overlook the role and responsibility of our union in protecting members' careers. The justifications for outsourcing remain an economic fact at any level (reflecting the union's work to get us above market pay). If it makes sense to outsource 70 seat flying then it makes more sense to outsource 757 flying.
That is why we must separate unity from economics.
Nu is right. Our union has made a choice.
That is why we must separate unity from economics.
Nu is right. Our union has made a choice.
04-08-2012, 07:43 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
There will always be a 'business case' for paying...everyone...less. Bob Crandal said it a long time ago, "I'd oursource EVERYONE if I thought I could get away with it!
So, where do you draw that line? And on related note, when it comes to Profits, how much is "Enough"?
We have now crossed the magical $1Billion line, so...whats next?
Should we all take pay cuts, so that next year they can earn $2Billion? Sure, you'll take another 42% pay cut, but think of that whopping profit sharing check!
Or...should we get complete restoration, and next year's earnings are...Zero. ie. Delta breaks even, no losses, but no profit either. We get our $1Billion in pay cuts back, and Richard gets...break even.
Think that will fly at the Board Meeting?
Why, or why not?
How much is enough? Do they have to show earnings growth, year over year, every year? Why?
Discuss, I'll see if I can find my old Economics books and get back to you...
So, where do you draw that line? And on related note, when it comes to Profits, how much is "Enough"?
We have now crossed the magical $1Billion line, so...whats next?
Should we all take pay cuts, so that next year they can earn $2Billion? Sure, you'll take another 42% pay cut, but think of that whopping profit sharing check!
Or...should we get complete restoration, and next year's earnings are...Zero. ie. Delta breaks even, no losses, but no profit either. We get our $1Billion in pay cuts back, and Richard gets...break even.
Think that will fly at the Board Meeting?
Why, or why not?
How much is enough? Do they have to show earnings growth, year over year, every year? Why?
Discuss, I'll see if I can find my old Economics books and get back to you...
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