Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-07-2012, 03:55 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Here's something to celebrate:
Nobody died after a "catastrophic mechanical failure on takeoff" and crash into an apartment building.
http://www.wavy.com/
Nobody died after a "catastrophic mechanical failure on takeoff" and crash into an apartment building.
http://www.wavy.com/
04-07-2012, 04:00 AM
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
Here's something to celebrate:
Nobody died after a "catastrophic mechanical failure on takeoff" and crash into an apartment building.
WAVY.com | News, Weather and Traffic for Hampton Roads, Virginia and North Carolina
Nobody died after a "catastrophic mechanical failure on takeoff" and crash into an apartment building.
WAVY.com | News, Weather and Traffic for Hampton Roads, Virginia and North Carolina
04-07-2012, 04:06 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
Timbo,
There are several solutions to avoid the concerns you have raised. The solution we suggested back in 2000 when the ASA, Comair & Delta tie up was kicked around went something like this:
If there are furloughs, each group furloughs out of their own company order, out of their own list.
Eventually, through growth and fleet renewal, everyone is on the Delta list flying Delta equipment. The good part of this model is that folks bid into openings, mostly when they choose and when their seniority can hold it.
In the ASA / Comair proposal, we wrote a DOH zipper for the regional jockeys and a staple on the bottom of the Delta list.
Ten years later there is a squabble about whether or not this existed. Regardless, this model seems like it would work well in an instance where there was no overlap in equipment (which is by design in our scope language).
There are several solutions to avoid the concerns you have raised. The solution we suggested back in 2000 when the ASA, Comair & Delta tie up was kicked around went something like this:
- Pilots from each pre merger airline maintain their pre-merger number for bidding their own equipment.
- and Pilots are given a Delta seniority number (either staple or via arbitration).
If there are furloughs, each group furloughs out of their own company order, out of their own list.
Eventually, through growth and fleet renewal, everyone is on the Delta list flying Delta equipment. The good part of this model is that folks bid into openings, mostly when they choose and when their seniority can hold it.
In the ASA / Comair proposal, we wrote a DOH zipper for the regional jockeys and a staple on the bottom of the Delta list.
Ten years later there is a squabble about whether or not this existed. Regardless, this model seems like it would work well in an instance where there was no overlap in equipment (which is by design in our scope language).
I like the concept, but as Sailingfun said, THEY won't like it one bit! And by THEY, I mean their most senior, the ones who have already been turned down at every Major and are lifers there. That's the problem, how do we get THEM to agree to it?
I remember some of the most senior Com Air guys spewing things like, "I'll be able to hold 767 Captain!" at that time.
Yeah...right.
04-07-2012, 04:07 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
04-07-2012, 04:20 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Will be back shortly.....
04-07-2012, 04:28 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
You got to go take a Harry Alger?
04-07-2012, 04:51 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
In the name of scope recapture I think we should just start a PR campaign around a simple question, "if Delta Air Lines' is the best, why does it outsource YOUR FLIGHT to multiple regional airlines jockeying to be the next lowest bidder?" Or in fun bumper sticker size: "BITTER ABOUT FLYING ON THE LOWEST BIDDER?"
Or a little more centric to our needs: "Ask why is your Delta flight not being flown by Delta pilots?
The connotation on that last question would be a problem for ALPA to run with because how can ALPA in good faith say Delta Air Lines pilots are better than Pinnacle/Comair/ExpressJet/Alaska/Compass pilots who are also ALPA?
The general direction here though is, shame them out of regional service and bring Delta passengers home to Delta Air Lines.
Or a little more centric to our needs: "Ask why is your Delta flight not being flown by Delta pilots?
The connotation on that last question would be a problem for ALPA to run with because how can ALPA in good faith say Delta Air Lines pilots are better than Pinnacle/Comair/ExpressJet/Alaska/Compass pilots who are also ALPA?
The general direction here though is, shame them out of regional service and bring Delta passengers home to Delta Air Lines.
This post boils down the issue perfectly. While I love the bumper sticker idea, I am not commenting on that. The issue is: Delta, assisted by DALPA, has outsourced half of its flying...To the lowest bidder.
The logical conclusion says that a 400 hour GoJets newhire is a suitable substitute for a 3 war combat pilot (or a 12000 hr regional captain DAL newhire) where DAL passenger safety is concerned.
As I said in another thread, Delta Air lines is in the ticket selling business...DALPAs core business is providing safe air travel. DALPA has allowed their core business to be outsourced.
I realize this is simplistic, but it really is the crux of the issue.
It is not quite as bad as in the right stuff where the astronauts were perplexed that NASA was going to send a monkey to do a man's work. Or was it send a man to do a monkey's work. Anyway, they unionized...Damn starvoyagers.
04-07-2012, 04:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 302
I would be against any staple or even flow of a DCI carrier. Sorry guys, but we have to maintain quality control in our pilot group. There are a ton of great guys at the regionals, let them get hired through the traditional interview method that Delta has been using pretty successfully throughout its history. A staple/flow allows the tools (which there are also many) to get on without being screened.
04-07-2012, 05:00 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: CRJ Captain
Posts: 1,406
I'm down with that. 
In fact that's probably the only way to do it.
The ASA/Comair thing years ago I think was short sightedness on the account of both parties. I don't think DALPA really wanted to force the issue and the senior ASA/Comair guys did exactly as expected.
All this being theoretical of course... remember Comair is still owned by Delta, too. I doubt there would be anything to force the issue of bringing all the Pineapple people on.
In fact that's probably the only way to do it. The ASA/Comair thing years ago I think was short sightedness on the account of both parties. I don't think DALPA really wanted to force the issue and the senior ASA/Comair guys did exactly as expected.
All this being theoretical of course... remember Comair is still owned by Delta, too. I doubt there would be anything to force the issue of bringing all the Pineapple people on.
04-07-2012, 05:14 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 474
In the name of scope recapture I think we should just start a PR campaign around a simple question, "if Delta Air Lines' is the best, why does it outsource YOUR FLIGHT to multiple regional airlines jockeying to be the next lowest bidder?" Or in fun bumper sticker size: "BITTER ABOUT FLYING ON THE LOWEST BIDDER?"
Or a little more centric to our needs: "Ask why is your Delta flight not being flown by Delta pilots?
The connotation on that last question would be a problem for ALPA to run with because how can ALPA in good faith say Delta Air Lines pilots are better than Pinnacle/Comair/ExpressJet/Alaska/Compass pilots who are also ALPA?
The general direction here though is, shame them out of regional service and bring Delta passengers home to Delta Air Lines.
Or a little more centric to our needs: "Ask why is your Delta flight not being flown by Delta pilots?
The connotation on that last question would be a problem for ALPA to run with because how can ALPA in good faith say Delta Air Lines pilots are better than Pinnacle/Comair/ExpressJet/Alaska/Compass pilots who are also ALPA?
The general direction here though is, shame them out of regional service and bring Delta passengers home to Delta Air Lines.
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