Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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04-02-2012, 06:49 PM

#94601

Bucking Bar

Can't abide NAI

Joined APC: Jun 2007

Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler

Posts: 12,037

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgetg

I would submit that the Pinnacle bankruptcy was on the radar all along...

Clearly Delta didn't just discover yesterday that it would take $73M DIP financing to secure the Pinnacle's outstanding financial obligations towards Delta.

I sure hope you are right but historically that hasn't been the case. On the other hand, I do believe selling scope to finance pay rates is a non-starter for all...

Cheers
George

On the radar, yes. But I did not see dumping the new 900's and keeping the 50 seaters. But when it was realized what the 900's were needed for (in the short term) it was forehead slapping obvious. Comair and ASA have the oldest 50 seaters. Delta management now has the airplanes it needs to trade to Skywest to renegotiate some 50 seat contracts. It isn't everything they need, but for now, it works.

As for Pinnacle / Colgan, it appears to be stabilized destruction. At least they challenged Phillip's $1.5 million "consulting" contact.

Last edited by Bucking Bar; 04-02-2012 at 07:00 PM.

04-02-2012, 06:52 PM

#94602

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by padre2992

I'd like to avoid the APA path.

We all do. The difference is, your plan is to avoid the APA path by surrendering early and accepting a falsely computed number like 11%. Surrender is certainly one way to avoid a fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by padre2992

They tried to justify their huge "ask" using a number of analogies; former pay rates adjusted for inflation, management compensation, former sacrifices. None of it matters. Get over it.

Nobody is advancing that thesis. We're all mostly advocating using SWAPA's contract as leverage to obtain their pay and work work rules along with their scope considering we're far more profitable than they are. The question I have is why you and some others are trying to advance a false 11% number in response to our union realizing that we're on to the whole SWAPA thing? Why do you do that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by padre2992

We all need to live in the here and now. What you guys made in 2004 does not matter to the NMB. That's a brick wall that you cannot get by. If you think that you are going to get a 43% pay raise, you are going to wait, and wait, and wait, and bypass thousands of dollars of income.

We're ALL living in the here and now. You're talking about the past at APA and attempting to link that outcome with ours. Why do you do that?

Carl

04-02-2012, 06:53 PM

#94603

Carl Spackler

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse

Sorry, meant to show one of the right side.

Jesse, I hope you never leave.

Carl

04-02-2012, 07:04 PM

#94604

Carl Spackler

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by padre2992

This forum and the DALPA forum have had free rein for the last couple of years creating "facts". Now that DALPA has introduced information that is not congruent with those facts, it has created distrust.

OK padre, it's clear you're the latest to be reading from the DALPA talking points. The reason there is distrust is because DALPA didn't introduce facts. DALPA spun, carefully parsed words, and some cases lied. That generally produces mistrust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by padre2992

I'm sure this is part of the reason for people to turn to alternative forms of representation because the "facts" from that group back up the emotions that have been displayed here for so long. it makes them feel comfortable.

I don't think you help your case (or DALPA's) by insulting us. We're not making emotional decisions...read the above. And by the way, that is a really old talking point. The DALPA apologists here were characterizing anyone interested in another union as "emotional" for years now. Even they've stopped using that one. Just sayin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by padre2992

As humans, we make decisions based on a combination of emotions and facts. When the two are so different as they are now (think Roger and 88), it creates uncertainty and fear.

Again, your talking points are old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by padre2992

Right now, the perceptions of many do not match what is being presented as facts. It's really hard on some people and they are scared and angry.

New talking points are absolutely required if you don't want to be ridiculed here ace. Our decisions are based on being lied to and spun. Much to your dismay, most of us are smart enough to realize it.

Carl

04-02-2012, 07:07 PM

#94605

TheManager

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jan 2010

Posts: 1,503

Well, seems obvious now after giving the initial benefit of doubt.

Let the games begin!

Padre2992 = Industrial Psychologist, which is really just a polite term for one engaged in activity that is negatively directed towards labor.

04-02-2012, 07:12 PM

#94606

Carl Spackler

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManager

Yup. I wonder what makes them madder: The fact that we're questioning them, or the fact that by pointing out their game, we're not as stupid as we're supposed to be?

Carl

04-02-2012, 07:13 PM

#94607

FlyZ

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jan 2011

Posts: 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by padre2992

Exactly Bill. We know the company wants something now, and we can guess that with the AMR bankruptcy, there will be a second step. Maybe this deal is just the first of a multiple step set of deals, with each one returning something to the Delta pilot group.

So, take the risk with step one, or does sitting on the sidelines for step one mean we do not participate in step two?

We "participated" in step zero about four years ago, and the result has been a miserable period of stagnation and consistently slipping backward EVERY SINGLE BID, making bankruptcy wages, while the company has made money hand over fist. This contract MUST include payback for the synergies we allowed the company to realize. If management does not recognize the part we played in the successful first merger, I want absolutely no part of step one, two, or the others they have in mind.

P.S. Step 0.b.2 was pushing the slot swap through for them. That one sure sucked when they revealed the big secret - turning LGA into DAL RJ Central.

04-02-2012, 07:21 PM

#94608

Boomer

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jan 2008

Position: blueJet

Posts: 4,534

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMoon

I'm pretty sure that Comair FO rate isn't right. When I used to work there it was 43.

Kind of.

A 6th year FO would be $43/hr if a 6th year FO could hold the CRJ900. They can't.

And the 12th year Captain rate is also misleading. Our 12th year Captrains have been First Officers since 2010, making our 12th year Captain rate effectively $43/hr as well.

That's the cheapest in the industry, but for some reason Delta isn't sending any more planes our way because our crew costs are above average.

04-02-2012, 07:24 PM

#94609

LuvJockey

Don't want to participate

Joined APC: Jul 2005

Position: 737 Left Seat

Posts: 1,016

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The myths about SW get better and better. The minimums at SW are nice. A 3 day trip pays 16 hours and 50 minutes minimum which is 19.5 trips. Their system makes it simple and easy to schedule those days so credit is not found on many trips. The average pilot flies 105 trips a month working 14 to 15 days or so. The average line is around 90 TRP each month and works around 12.5 days before pickups to get to 105. The average SW pilot works around 12 days a month after sick, reserve, mil leave and vacation. The average average Delta pilot works less after those same things are factored in. I don't remember exactly the trip pay however its around 185 per trip at SW. Hourly is around 212 per hour however different sources use different conversions. 212 is close. There contract is up soon like ours.

You sir, have no idea what you're talking about.