Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-29-2012, 08:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
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My reply was highly critical of Delta management, because I take outsourcing personally. Delta has trying to outsource my career. I'm like a man in the midst of bring fired. Management and ALPA are just negotiating the terms. The fact there are a few thousand with me makes no difference as to my personal career outome. (so you can imagine how cheery the responce on their survey is).
03-29-2012, 08:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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The biggest problem those guys will face is the attitude adjustment necessary to leave a high-paying foreign contract to come back to probation wages.
03-29-2012, 08:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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Well from one who spends a lot of time talking to young qualified pilots who have their eye on the commercial carriers, FX is certainly the big kid on the block in their minds. They see 2 things that the legacies don't offer: dollar billz and 'job security' in the freight business model. The million dollar question is how perishable both are over time when seniority isn't. the other unkown is why FX wasn't the top ticket pre-911. Uneducated guess: most Jr DAL guys will wait until the next contract and then bail if it's bad.
03-29-2012, 08:58 AM
Can't abide NAI
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Who wants to fly night cargo for an entire career? I have a few good friends at FedEx and they HATE it. They love the paycheck and stability but absolutely hate the job. A career of night flying subtracts many years off of a pilots life. They can have it. I think Deltas flying is far superior to what FedEx has to offer. To each their own.
My father retired from Fed Ex. There is enough diversity to their operation that you get what you bid. Being junior isn't great shakes anywhere, but at least at FedEx they have not outsourced so much that any of their pilots have enjoyed being junior for more than ten years.
03-29-2012, 09:11 AM
Can't abide NAI
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I know of a few that are thinking of bailing to either FDX/UPS or Emirates or Asia contract flying. It seems the more mgmt brags about how great our pilot group is, i have the warm and fuzzy feeling they're just sharpening the knives and see how much blood they can wring out of us.
This company is not the same as pre-BK, where employees feel the need to attach to the company and help it grow. It's evident in our customer service, and in how we treat our colleagues. And it will show up in our contract negotiations. Democracy will be at its best, the majority of the pilot group will vote in a TA, whereas the minority will have no say. Let's hope the majority of us vote to improve on SCOPE first!
This company is not the same as pre-BK, where employees feel the need to attach to the company and help it grow. It's evident in our customer service, and in how we treat our colleagues. And it will show up in our contract negotiations. Democracy will be at its best, the majority of the pilot group will vote in a TA, whereas the minority will have no say. Let's hope the majority of us vote to improve on SCOPE first!
Our flight operations management is highly motivated and enthusiastic about the work we perform. They desire happy employees and want the highest quality work from those employees in exchange. They support our operation and give 110%. I like working for them and am happy to go the extra mile for our airline and our customers. Together, we think we make a difference. We are both prostrate to marketing and network management.
Marketing and Network run the "brand." They decide which division or partner will create their productive capacity. Their decisions are driven by revenue and cost. They don't particularly care if it is a Delta 747 or an Air France A380. Neither do they care whether it is a 757, or a NextGen CRJ. None are old school Delta. None have the nostalgic sensibilities that cloud our judgement. Their considerations are mathematical, pure and simple.
Delta's flight operations management has more in common with Comair's flight operations management than they do the network and revenue men. As a labor group, we have failed to realize our commonality with the Comair pilots, who saw their flying outsourced and diversified until they were a shadow of their former selves.
That's why I'm not particularly excited about old-gen tech aircraft for mainline pilots. I know what it takes to win the beauty contest with revenue and network management ... we need efficient, current generation equipment to compete.
---- -----
In contrast, both FedEx and Emirates are vertically connected throughout their corporations. Their senior management sees a real value to performing their own work to ensure the quality of their product. They perceive this quality as essential to their success. They are enthusiastic, top to bottom, in their own operation.
Contrast this to Delta network management who described Go Jets as "the best... ." For reference, GoJets is a division of Trans States, which was fired as a DCI carrier by Leo Mullin's team for sub par performance.
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New hires would be foolish to come to a division of a Company where management outsources labor on a pure economic basis. They will only be valued as the commodity they are. Their loyalty and enthusiasm for their employer will be unrequited. They would be much better off with an employer who is "in it to win it."
In 2007 Delta did reconnect to the core values to power their way out of bankruptcy. However shareholders demanded a deal and the deal they got was entirely rational from an economic perspective. Delta moved further towards becoming a brand management company ... . Try to find a pair of Levi's made in San Francisco ... the only reason the odds are better for finding a Delta pilot flying Delta passengers is because of ALPA and because of scope.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 03-29-2012 at 09:45 AM.
03-29-2012, 09:32 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
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Before I digest Bar's post, even the Feds on the line are openly talking about 717s to DAL but saying the announcement was supposed to have been made earlier this week.
Gotta go.
Gotta go.
03-29-2012, 10:05 AM
Can't abide NAI
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Interesting quote from ANA's President:
The airline plans to use the smaller passenger capacity and long legs of the 787 to provide customers more scheduled flights than can be offered using larger aircraft such as the 747-400. Focus will also remain on using the fleet to offer more mid-range international flights, versus domestic routes. The airline sees the potential for the 787 in a 200-seat configuration to offer operating costs 50 percent lower than those of a Boeing 747-400.
03-29-2012, 10:09 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
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In contrast, both FedEx and Emirates are vertically connected throughout their corporations. Their senior management sees a real value to performing their own work to ensure the quality of their product. They perceive this quality as essential to their success. They are enthusiastic, top to bottom, in their own operation.
Contrast this to Delta network management who described Go Jets as "the best... ." For reference, GoJets is a division of Trans States, which was fired as a DCI carrier by Leo Mullin's team for sub par performance.
----------
New hires would be foolish to come to a division of a Company where management outsources labor on a pure economic basis. They will only be valued as the commodity they are. Their loyalty and enthusiasm for their employer will be unrequited. They would be much better off with an employer who is "in it to win it."
In 2007 Delta did reconnect to the core values to power their way out of bankruptcy. However shareholders demanded a deal and the deal they got was entirely rational from an economic perspective. Delta moved further towards becoming a brand management company ... . Try to find a pair of Levi's made in San Francisco ... the only reason the odds are better for finding a Delta pilot flying Delta passengers is because of ALPA and because of scope.
Contrast this to Delta network management who described Go Jets as "the best... ." For reference, GoJets is a division of Trans States, which was fired as a DCI carrier by Leo Mullin's team for sub par performance.
----------
New hires would be foolish to come to a division of a Company where management outsources labor on a pure economic basis. They will only be valued as the commodity they are. Their loyalty and enthusiasm for their employer will be unrequited. They would be much better off with an employer who is "in it to win it."
In 2007 Delta did reconnect to the core values to power their way out of bankruptcy. However shareholders demanded a deal and the deal they got was entirely rational from an economic perspective. Delta moved further towards becoming a brand management company ... . Try to find a pair of Levi's made in San Francisco ... the only reason the odds are better for finding a Delta pilot flying Delta passengers is because of ALPA and because of scope.
In regards to outsourcing- ahem, FedEx does it, too:
FedEx Express... Connection?
Oh, and Emirates seems to do the outsourcing thing as well with even bigger jets:
03-29-2012, 10:12 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
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I think fedex only outsources with caravans.
Emirates outsources with some acmi's for the haj.
Emirates outsources with some acmi's for the haj.
03-29-2012, 10:21 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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