forgot to bid

Friendly reminder that time is on our side, yes it is, tiiiiimmmme is on our side, yes it is.

Cue scary scenes of a Rolling Stones singing demon jumping from body to body in Denzel Washington's police station.

Bucking Bar

In our conceptual opener, we missed the concept that Delta pilots perform Delta flying.

vprMatrix

ACL,

I read " Improve balance of flying between Delta and DCI" as a way of saying we want to lock the (current?) ASM ratio between Delta and DCI. This might work if Alpa is seeking a large cut in current DCI flying but my guess is they won't. Worse, I bet that alpa will put in a one way valve were DCI can grow but doesn't have to shrink when mainline does.

Hope I'm wrong but there were enough specifics in other sections that section 1 has left me underwhelmed . Also, I can't tell your tone but why is a sunset clause a fantasy? Even if we just half the 255 large RJs, sunsetting seems like a good way of taking the sting out of RJ reductions.

Vpr

Free Bird

Also they were looking way day the road with the 2 man requirement, that was interesting as well.

nwaf16dude

That's a really pessimistic stretch you're making there... How could locking the current ratio possibly be seen as "improving the balance of flying between Delta and DCI"? Yes, I hope you are wrong as well.

I was underwhelmed by the first read through, but they are addressing most of my concerns with "improve" statements, so I'll wait for the TA to make my judgement.

I was pleased to see the attempt to redefine flight time based on the door being closed.

Bucking Bar

The concept of ratios and balances with DCI was tried, and failed, in Contract 2000. So was this "holding company" language. When Delta management needed every ounce of performance from the DCI network to try to save the Company the passengers (and the pilots) allowed those provisions of Contract 2000 to be jettisoned almost immediately to save the ship. When our job protection provisions fail, we should not simply wait until the next Section 6 and renegotiate them back in again.

Our Section 1 proposal, along with numerous anecdotal accounts, tells me ALPA (specifically the Delta MEC) intends to remain in this outsourcing partnership with management.

Elvis90

I've been reviewing our 2011 10-K filing for some facts.

http://investing.businessweek.com/re...&formType=10-K

Fuel was 36% of our operating expense at $11.8B.

All employee salaries made up 22% of expenses, costing $6.8B

Total operating expense was $31.4B.

We have 10,850 active pilots, out of 78,400 total employees. Pilots make up 14% of the workforce.

Now I'm going to make an assumption, because I can't break out pilot cost in the filing.

Average pilot pay & benefits:$130,000 x 10,850 pilots = $1.4B.

$1.4B / $31.4B = 4.5%...Pilots are less than 5% of the company's operating expense.

According to the filing, fuel costs increased from $8.9B in 2010 to $11.8B in 2011.

$11.8B / $8.9B = a 33% increase year over year.

I guess my point in all this is that the company successfully covered increased costs in its greatest operating expense, fuel, 1/3rd of its cost overall. It covered a 33% increase.

Pilots make up less than 1/20th of its operating expense. It could easily cover a 33% increase in 1/20th of its current expense.

fly2002

Absolutely disgusted by the lack of lower end scope recapture. Sure, let them fly some 50 seaters to feed, but those 170's need to be crewed by delta pilots. When the beach is eroding you add sand back to the bank. Alpa's just assuming there will never be a storm. Once those airbus's and 737's are washed away this career is DONE. It is obvious alpa wants status quo with scope and never intended to fight back. Way too much pressure from our "union with conflicted interest". Moak represents a LOT more regionals now than he does majors. His crowd to please is NOT us!!

Alpa is 38 airlines and only 2 are majors. When are these smart pilots finally going to do the math on this? We're gonna leave alpa. It's mathematical certainty. You think SWA, ups, usair, amr are going to come back? Right now CAPA represents more mainline pilots than alpa does!! If delta pilots go to capa, capa will represent more airline pilots total than alpa! You think united will sit there holding the bag at alpa once were gone? Sit back, look at the whole view. As acl used to say...read the tea leaves. It's quite simple really.

So back to scope...if we make no headway now what happens when a judge forces us to give away the 737's and airbus's in 10-15 years. What are we going to do then?

We leave alpa, united will follow. CAPA becomes huge, representing almost all mainline pilots. Alpa will represent regional carriers and there's nothing wrong with that. CAPA will be alpa v2.0 without all the bloat. Ok rant over...

Former alpa rep and alpa board of director member.

Ask away....I have tons of stories....

Bucking Bar

Fly2002,

How do we know the DPA will not enter into the same partnership with management to use outsourcing to supplement our pay rates?

Do you really believe our outsourcing is due to pressure from National?

Sink r8

I'm struggling with the "improve the balance of flying language, because that can be read all sorts of ways. As others mentionned, the economics of the 50-seat RJ are doing all the improvements we need, when looking at the cap on large RJ's. In yesterday's webcast, Bastian talked about his 350 50-seat RJ problem, and said something to the effect that we will have to have discussions with our DC partners and airframe manufacturers, and be "creative". That better mean crewing airplanes with Delta pilots only. The regional industry is probably on the verge of a fatal double-blow, with both RJ eceonomics, and pilot staffing issues combining in the near future.

Why would we want to save them, when we can fold them back in, where they belong?

Also fascinating that we will ask to codify the minimum crew complement at TWO pilots. I think this is looking far into the future, where the airframe manufacturers and avionics OEM's will try to "solve" (co-)pilot shortages with extra autopilots, a remote, and a german shepherd.

Lots of discussion about whether 750-hours or 1,500 hours makes sense for a newhire F/O... I can think of a time when we won't have either. It already happened once, in the seventies, when people were hired while working on their instrument ticket.