sailingfun

The company might want something. It might be worth 100 million dollars to them. That would not even pay for 1/5 of the improvements I expect for 1 year of the contract. We as pilots often way over value items we think the company has to have. They can do any of the mergers concepts being thrown out now without us.
USAIR is a well functioning airline at the moment with a totally dysfunctional pilot group. Don't think that lesson is not lost on airline managements.

Jack Bauer

Actually there have been several articles written recently describing how US Airways pilot situation makes them much less desirable when it comes to mergers and reduces their marketability.

I am less certain that Delta could be successful (ie money making outcome) doing a true merger without pilots on board than you are. Of course my assumption is based upon us having a union with a backbone. With that, you may well be right after all.

iceman49

Looking at the third quarter DOT stats, you're right. Just goes to show that more people are being born than you can p**s off.

Scoop

That is because they have looked into this tactic:

The Simpsons - Half-Ass Work Ethic - YouTube

Scoop

DAL 88 Driver

$186.06 is their rate. I used that number instead of the "converted from trip pay" number because I was talking about their work rules, which use the "trips for pay" concept. In other words, if we were to adopt their work rules (including TFP), we would get an immediate 30% increase in pay without even changing our current pay rates. Make sense now?

Check Essential

I am all for restoration.
My point was simply that the "opener" can't be judged so easily just based on the size of the pay bump we demand. As sailingfun mentioned, a number that is ridiculously high is just a waste of ink.

I hear you and I'm with you all the way on what it will take to get us back near C2K.
I just don't understand why people think they are going to be able to arrive at some momentous conclusions about ALPA based on the pay rate that is in this opener.

If I was a negotiator I wouldn't even publish an opener. Or if I was forced to, it would be the kind of general statement that everyone on this web forum seems to find unacceptable.

I'm a "total compenstaion" kinda guy. I agree with you on emphasizing the year end W-2. There are a lot of ways to get there besides the pay rates. Let the Wall Street Journal run the headline that Delta pilots got a smaller than expected bump in pay. What they don't put in their headline is stuff like --> Pay us 6 hours per day for vacation and training. Pay us for sitting in Toledo on a 30 hour layover. Lower our medical premiums. Increase in our DC contributions to the IRS maximum. etc. etc. All ways of putting money in our pockets without the headline generating pay rate increases.

I know a lot of the angst is because ALPA has lost people's trust. I'm one of them. The secret deals, the fait accompli joint ventures and LOAs and all that stuff and especially the scope concessions have really hurt our union's credibility. I understand that. But we really have no choice at this point except to trust these guys. The DPA fell short.
ALPA's overall strategy has not been kept secret. They have gone all-in with Moak's constructive engagement. We ratified that strategy when we elected them and we need to stand behind them now.
At least until we see a TA. Then we can judge.

FlyZ

And THAT'S why you can go to the Southwest hiring thread and see current Delta FOs giving people recommendations on how to fill out their SWA apps. Delta should be embarrassed about that, but somehow I doubt it.

NERD

Was Southwest embarrassed when in the late 90s people were leaving there for AA, Dal, or Ual? Doubt it because there are thousands waiting to take your place.

Sobchak

How many of our guys have signed nondisclosure agreements?

Bucking Bar

Can't tell you. That's non disclosed information.