Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-30-2009, 10:46 AM
#9211
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Just received a debrief from a friend that was in an ATL meeting attended by senior management. Management is still saying that Airbus and Boeing still do not have the product to meet our narrowbody requirements. Well of course not......... They are too wrapped up with the other enormous investments they have made/are making in 380/350X/787. We will not see anything until 2020-2022. Management is stalling for SCOPE relief in the 2012 contract. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
I don't have a very good feeling about our Union taking an aggressive stand for us. Just like Delta has always been all about protecting ATL at all costs, our union will be about protecting the widebody flying at all costs. I don't blame management for trying to secure this flying at the lowest cost possible, but I do blame DALPA for doing such a poor job of representing my interest after I pay them to do so every month. Where is the voice of DALPA to address these issues?
If you don't know what it feels like to be thrown under the bus, standby to have two tread marks up your back.........
I don't have a very good feeling about our Union taking an aggressive stand for us. Just like Delta has always been all about protecting ATL at all costs, our union will be about protecting the widebody flying at all costs. I don't blame management for trying to secure this flying at the lowest cost possible, but I do blame DALPA for doing such a poor job of representing my interest after I pay them to do so every month. Where is the voice of DALPA to address these issues?
If you don't know what it feels like to be thrown under the bus, standby to have two tread marks up your back.........
Your post is a little short on substance regarding the meeting, so it's hard to see how you come at your conclusions. What does "stalling for scope relief" mean? Are you suggesting they are already now making the argument that they need relief to field bigger airplanes because there are no big airplanes to field? That doesn't make too much sense. And what happened in this meeting to make you think ALPA would be complicit? I agree with you that prcedent is not encouraging, but for now, I'd like more details about this meeting. For starters, who attended? And were any requests made for scope relief?
I agree with management that neither Airbus or Boeing has any compelling new narrow-body in the works right now. But, I'm sure you agree it doesn't have to come from either Boeing, or Airbus to make us happy. It just has to be flown by Delta pilots. So it's up to managment to figure out intermediate solutions. A mix of new types (ie the C-Series), new orders (Embraer, OR Boeing, OR Airbii) and used aircraft should do the trick. NW never was afraid of getting used airplanes, and neither was Delta.
The request for scope relief is denied.
06-30-2009, 10:47 AM
#9212
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
And the AE looks to be about 40-50 767 A and B positions from what I can see.
Not sure what the DAL-N guys are going to do
Nu?
Not sure what the DAL-N guys are going to do
Nu?
06-30-2009, 10:48 AM
#9213
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
[quote=Tomcat;637387]Just received a debrief from a friend that was in an ATL meeting attended by senior management. Management is still saying that Airbus and Boeing still do not have the product to meet our narrowbody requirements.
100% management BS! I guess the 100 seat ERJ is good enough for our passengers as long as its flown at DCI. Our union guys better start figuring this out.
Scoop
100% management BS! I guess the 100 seat ERJ is good enough for our passengers as long as its flown at DCI. Our union guys better start figuring this out.
Scoop
06-30-2009, 10:50 AM
#9214
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I personally think that they are stalling so that they can get the jet they want. Everything DCI has is an under performer. The 76 seat jet just upsets our passengers a little less.
CRJ's in particular!
CRJ's in particular!
06-30-2009, 10:53 AM
#9215
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Thanks ACL for adding some color to that discussion. Your posts makes perfect sense to me: aircraft replacements are not an all-or-nothing solution. Stopgap measures can be found, and are being found. Deliveries of an old fleet type often overlap deliveries of the new fleet type.
With respect to the furloughs, thanks for sharing what you know. While this is nothing but a big rumor mill, I think it helps some of the junior guys feel better. I also think there are a lot of thorny issues involved if anyone if furloughed either just before, or just after, SOC.
As for the notion a shakeup is imminent, I must admit it's starting to feel more real now than even during the previous round of bankruptcies. It may not yield the results we want, because it may yield ultra-strong competitors, but it certainly seems like a bad time to dismantle the network. In some months, it may be all about filling voids, and gaining market share.
With respect to the furloughs, thanks for sharing what you know. While this is nothing but a big rumor mill, I think it helps some of the junior guys feel better. I also think there are a lot of thorny issues involved if anyone if furloughed either just before, or just after, SOC.
As for the notion a shakeup is imminent, I must admit it's starting to feel more real now than even during the previous round of bankruptcies. It may not yield the results we want, because it may yield ultra-strong competitors, but it certainly seems like a bad time to dismantle the network. In some months, it may be all about filling voids, and gaining market share.
06-30-2009, 10:59 AM
#9217
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Tomcat,
Your post is a little short on substance regarding the meeting, so it's hard to see how you come at your conclusions. What does "stalling for scope relief" mean? Are you suggesting they are already now making the argument that they need relief to field bigger airplanes because there are no big airplanes to field? That doesn't make too much sense. And what happened in this meeting to make you think ALPA would be complicit? I agree with you that prcedent is not encouraging, but for now, I'd like more details about this meeting. For starters, who attended? And were any requests made for scope relief?
I agree with management that neither Airbus or Boeing has any compelling new narrow-body in the works right now. But, I'm sure you agree it doesn't have to come from either Boeing, or Airbus to make us happy. It just has to be flown by Delta pilots. So it's up to managment to figure out intermediate solutions. A mix of new types (ie the C-Series), new orders (Embraer, OR Boeing, OR Airbii) and used aircraft should do the trick. NW never was afraid of getting used airplanes, and neither was Delta.
The request for scope relief is denied.
Your post is a little short on substance regarding the meeting, so it's hard to see how you come at your conclusions. What does "stalling for scope relief" mean? Are you suggesting they are already now making the argument that they need relief to field bigger airplanes because there are no big airplanes to field? That doesn't make too much sense. And what happened in this meeting to make you think ALPA would be complicit? I agree with you that prcedent is not encouraging, but for now, I'd like more details about this meeting. For starters, who attended? And were any requests made for scope relief?
I agree with management that neither Airbus or Boeing has any compelling new narrow-body in the works right now. But, I'm sure you agree it doesn't have to come from either Boeing, or Airbus to make us happy. It just has to be flown by Delta pilots. So it's up to managment to figure out intermediate solutions. A mix of new types (ie the C-Series), new orders (Embraer, OR Boeing, OR Airbii) and used aircraft should do the trick. NW never was afraid of getting used airplanes, and neither was Delta.
The request for scope relief is denied.
NOW THAT SHOULD BECOME A FLIGHT BAG STICKER!!!!!
06-30-2009, 11:09 AM
#9219
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
IMHO the 76 seat had many reasons but one of the biggest to management was the fact that they wanted a short term fix. These jets did that for them. DCI as a risk sharing partner made it even better.
IMHO as we move in to the next decade and a cheaper 100 ish seat jet is developed and delivered, you will see DCI go to the size of yesteryear. It was an experiments that worked well for many years, but eventually bit them in the back.
That said. It does not mean that we should give up the fight to lower the limits on scope. It just needs to be put in context.
Management knows that asking for much less us giving up the 100 seat flying creates more issues than it solves. (IMHO. We have made a big stink and it has not gone unheard)
IMHO as we move in to the next decade and a cheaper 100 ish seat jet is developed and delivered, you will see DCI go to the size of yesteryear. It was an experiments that worked well for many years, but eventually bit them in the back.
That said. It does not mean that we should give up the fight to lower the limits on scope. It just needs to be put in context.
Management knows that asking for much less us giving up the 100 seat flying creates more issues than it solves. (IMHO. We have made a big stink and it has not gone unheard)
06-30-2009, 11:14 AM
#9220
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
When you say 767 are you talking ER or domestic?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
