Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-07-2012, 01:15 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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5. Guys have also said that the new reserve systems weighs seniority much more than for line-holders and used the example of a senior line-holder getting a green-slip and then going to the back of the green-slip list, spreading the wealth. True, just as a reserve pilot getting a green-slip goes to the back of the list.
*according to the pilot who returned to a pure seniority based GS system. No limits, no spreading the wealth. In his view, being in the top 3% of the category, he gets screwed.
6. When bidding for his schedule the senior most pilot picks whatever trips he wants. Even the number two guys cannot pick his very first trip until the number one pilot has picked his last trip. Is this also unfair? Should the senior guy pick a single trip and then the number two pilot his first trip, and the the number three pilot pick his first trip etc, etc...
For instance, with reserve a relatively senior pilot in comparison to other reserve pilots (but probably still junior to the most senior pilots) will be paid 70 hours but can easily fly 0 hours if they know when to and not to ask for SC and how to bid their days. Multiple pilots did this in my category.
If that's okay, why don't we have a system where senior pilots can bid a line, drop their flying and get paid ALV?
Yes I realize the company would frown on paying two pilots to fly the same trips, so, in this case the dropped trips will be picked up for 0 hours credit. Which is about the same with reserve, you're not getting paid any more to do any more flying than you normally do.
That's why I say this system should not be so arbitrary, come up with a mathematical equation that on the last day of the month publishes the raw thresholds based off available to required ratios, block hours to be flown, open time snapshots, average length of trips in category, longest trip in category, average short calls per pilot for a given period, etc. I do not like arbitrary.
03-07-2012, 01:28 PM
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and
OK. I don't actually know how they're chosing the number. Seems like they're making it 80 when there isn't much flying. 80 is about 40 hours, or a four-day trip and three SC. 80 is about as far as I would stretch it, and 80 means senior probably doesn't fly in a very low month, but since junior is 40 hours ahead max... I can live with it. Then again I would probably say that if you've done 2 3-day trips and one SC, senior should go out. So... 70 max?
OK. I don't actually know how they're chosing the number. Seems like they're making it 80 when there isn't much flying. 80 is about 40 hours, or a four-day trip and three SC. 80 is about as far as I would stretch it, and 80 means senior probably doesn't fly in a very low month, but since junior is 40 hours ahead max... I can live with it. Then again I would probably say that if you've done 2 3-day trips and one SC, senior should go out. So... 70 max?
On my category a day is 10-11 points. Usually 11. So basically 8 days i.e. two 4-days. A 4 day and a 3 day would not do it without a SC. And 5 to 6 days plus a short call falls very short.
But maybe in the other categories, which are a separate group anyways, a day is worth more. Which is my thing, take the longest trip in category plus a short call maybe two and I think that's a fair threshold. Of course international needs to be adjusted downwards with some of the lengths of those trips.
I believe so. The thing about reserve, three things needed to be cleaned up bad. Short Call assignments, short call counting for something and Yellow Slips. They got those in LOA 29 which is great.
OK, it's not a winner take all, so we agree mostly. When we had a pure seniority-based system, we also had ~30% Reserves. Nowadays, Reserves in the summer merely become unscheduled lineholders, at which point the RAW buckets are really mostly about letting senior step up and volunteer early, to pick the flying he's going to fly, because he sure is going to fly. I'm all for distributing the flying according to seniority, but I'm not trying to create a privileged elite.
Which is why I sometimes don't understand how you look at senior and junior as if they are two distinct groups. It's a graduated scale. It's not "the senior" that benefit, and "the junior" that lose, it's always a question of letting the more senior of two pilots get the first shot at picking first out of two assigned trips in the summer, and about letting the senior pilot have more opportunities to sit out the winter. More, not all.
Which is why I sometimes don't understand how you look at senior and junior as if they are two distinct groups. It's a graduated scale. It's not "the senior" that benefit, and "the junior" that lose, it's always a question of letting the more senior of two pilots get the first shot at picking first out of two assigned trips in the summer, and about letting the senior pilot have more opportunities to sit out the winter. More, not all.
03-07-2012, 02:11 PM
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03-07-2012, 02:32 PM
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[QUOTE=forgot to bid;1147465]
But what would constitute a problem?
That is the million dollar question - what is a fair amount to weigh seniority? I have no idea, but I certainly wouldn't change the system based on the data from the months of February and March flying, no matter how skewed it was.
Scoop
But what would constitute a problem?
That is the million dollar question - what is a fair amount to weigh seniority? I have no idea, but I certainly wouldn't change the system based on the data from the months of February and March flying, no matter how skewed it was.
Scoop
03-07-2012, 02:43 PM
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As one of the top 10 RES on the 88B in ATL, I already have a 3 day and 1 short call in the bag. There are many junior to me that have = or less raw than I do.
The RES system is a huge improvement.
The RES system is a huge improvement.
03-07-2012, 02:46 PM
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Has anyone else noticed the latest edition to the ATIS in KATL? Something along the lines of "inboard runways will not be used for landings except in Emergency situations".
I wonder why they added that recently?
Guess you can't blame them for trying.
I wonder why they added that recently?
Guess you can't blame them for trying.
03-07-2012, 03:12 PM
seeing the large hubs...
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If this was right after the taxiway M landing, I could see a correlation to that.
03-07-2012, 03:13 PM
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The only thing I can think of is obstacle clearance off construction from the new international terminal. I haven't been to ATL in about 2 weeks, so I don't know if there is a new crane or something up.
If this was right after the taxiway M landing, I could see a correlation to that.
If this was right after the taxiway M landing, I could see a correlation to that.
"Tower, this is Southwest 123... is the inboard available?"
03-07-2012, 03:16 PM
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my 2 cents on new rsv system: The huge disparity that we're seeing now is because in some category we have a huge surplus, M88 in most bases. Senior guys are now smart enough to bid the last part of the month off, and therefore enhances their chances of staying home, while junior guys work in the beginning of the month.
Once summer arrives, and the number of lineholders increase, and reserve coverage drops, this disparity will diminish as we get leaner. I would give this system a try till labor day, and see if it holds up. It's way too early to get the pitchfork out.
Once summer arrives, and the number of lineholders increase, and reserve coverage drops, this disparity will diminish as we get leaner. I would give this system a try till labor day, and see if it holds up. It's way too early to get the pitchfork out.
I think the new system is a HUGE improvement. I appreciate the work done by the SOT in getting these changes implemented. Do I think they could have done something better? Yes. Instead of allowing one point to separate buckets (e.g. 80 in bucket 1; 81 in bucket 2) they could have given each pilot a built in RAW of 30 pts that was automatically put toward his RAW, but only applicable to pilots JUNIOR to him. Thus he would not possibly find himself (80) as finding he is only 1 pt lower than a junior pilot (81) and having to do a trip he didn't want, but that should have gone to the junior guy.
BTW, I am OK with senior pilots passing up flying that junior guys end up having to do. But within limits...the bucket system works fairly well (suggested fix above), but 80 should be somewhere like 53-57 IMO.
Last edited by Jesse; 03-07-2012 at 05:19 PM.
03-07-2012, 03:22 PM
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BTW, in my dealings and others who have sent me emails, texts or pm's about this subject, the common response from rep's has been "the new system is what pilots demanded and if you don't like the system it's because your junior." Which is, let's all recall, a relative thing because you can be a 1987 hire sitting reserve on the 777A and not be happy.
But did I miss the survey on this? When did it happen?
One thing though, I've seen a change in tone to the positive and more receptive to other ideas lately, and that I appreciate.
But did I miss the survey on this? When did it happen?
One thing though, I've seen a change in tone to the positive and more receptive to other ideas lately, and that I appreciate.
When I did contact my reps I was told that all the feedback they have received was from junior pilots like myself with these concerns. In other words, 100% of the feedback was critical of what was taking place, namely the bucket values. 100% of it.
Now you could say that the seniors just hadn't commented and had they been asked they would have told you they support it. But this rep said they hadn't said anything; that all the feedback he got was negative. So apparently only when seniors complain does it matter. Do senior pilots (e.g. top 50%) get greater credit for their opinions and input? I mean we all admit that seniority should be respected so how about we commit to this and give them greater representation (from what I'm seeing they already are when it comes to the reserve system). So let's make it official: give their vote values and survey inputs a value of 1.5 and junior pilots a value of .75. They are paying more in dues, right?
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