Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-07-2012, 10:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Having week-ends off: that does work. But then again, having week-ends off works with or without buckets.
Can't do this discussion justive right now, though. Gotta go. You guys take it easy.
03-07-2012, 10:47 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Yes, but if the more senior pilots are smart, they will bid off the last 12 days of the month. This is the most likely time that the more junior pilots RAW's will be below theirs.
I understand what you are saying, but there will always be a group that gets flow more. Junior guys will always go first in the first part of the month, and the more senior pilots will go second. Lets say the most junior are off the first half and the most senior are off the second half, it means that the most senior sit the first half well the bottom 1/3 with no bidding authority sit at home and the middle 1/3 work. In the next 1/3 of the month the senior pilots are still senior and the most junior start to filter in. They work first. Once we hit the last 12 days of the month the most senior 1/3 are off well the 1/3 most junior work and the middle 1/3 sit.
I saw it last month and for the senior guys that are paying attention, I am seeing it this month. You can tell from the wide report which senior pilots already figured out the game and strategically bid their off days.
Will it guarantee you not to work? No, but it greatly reduces you changes in months with there is little to no flying in the pot. As we get shorter in the spring and summer, it really does not matter.
I understand what you are saying, but there will always be a group that gets flow more. Junior guys will always go first in the first part of the month, and the more senior pilots will go second. Lets say the most junior are off the first half and the most senior are off the second half, it means that the most senior sit the first half well the bottom 1/3 with no bidding authority sit at home and the middle 1/3 work. In the next 1/3 of the month the senior pilots are still senior and the most junior start to filter in. They work first. Once we hit the last 12 days of the month the most senior 1/3 are off well the 1/3 most junior work and the middle 1/3 sit.
I saw it last month and for the senior guys that are paying attention, I am seeing it this month. You can tell from the wide report which senior pilots already figured out the game and strategically bid their off days.
Will it guarantee you not to work? No, but it greatly reduces you changes in months with there is little to no flying in the pot. As we get shorter in the spring and summer, it really does not matter.
Because the thing is if you get, and this happened to me last month, if you get lumped in with the weekends ON group during the week (say only be available for 3 days starting mon) then out you go. You want to try and hide in the 4+ day available crowd for as long as you can if you're senior.
03-07-2012, 10:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Yes, but if the more senior pilots are smart, they will bid off the last 12 days of the month. This is the most likely time that the more junior pilots RAW's will be below theirs.
I understand what you are saying, but there will always be a group that gets flow more. Junior guys will always go first in the first part of the month, and the more senior pilots will go second. Lets say the most junior are off the first half and the most senior are off the second half, it means that the most senior sit the first half well the bottom 1/3 with no bidding authority sit at home and the middle 1/3 work. In the next 1/3 of the month the senior pilots are still senior and the most junior start to filter in. They work first. Once we hit the last 12 days of the month the most senior 1/3 are off well the 1/3 most junior work and the middle 1/3 sit.
I saw it last month and for the senior guys that are paying attention, I am seeing it this month. You can tell from the wide report which senior pilots already figured out the game and strategically bid their off days.
Will it guarantee you not to work? No, but it greatly reduces you changes in months with there is little to no flying in the pot. As we get shorter in the spring and summer, it really does not matter.
I understand what you are saying, but there will always be a group that gets flow more. Junior guys will always go first in the first part of the month, and the more senior pilots will go second. Lets say the most junior are off the first half and the most senior are off the second half, it means that the most senior sit the first half well the bottom 1/3 with no bidding authority sit at home and the middle 1/3 work. In the next 1/3 of the month the senior pilots are still senior and the most junior start to filter in. They work first. Once we hit the last 12 days of the month the most senior 1/3 are off well the 1/3 most junior work and the middle 1/3 sit.
I saw it last month and for the senior guys that are paying attention, I am seeing it this month. You can tell from the wide report which senior pilots already figured out the game and strategically bid their off days.
Will it guarantee you not to work? No, but it greatly reduces you changes in months with there is little to no flying in the pot. As we get shorter in the spring and summer, it really does not matter.
03-07-2012, 10:52 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Sink, I think the thing to remember here is that many of us who don't like the bucket system are not necessarily opposed to the bucket system. We don't like the 80 point threshold on some categories.
I sit reserve and hate that SC is so arbitrary. It should be predictable and I should be able to say, just like with a YS, "IF you need me to sit SC then I want the following time slots..." Instead you have to guess whether they want you and sometimes you screw yourself that way.
I want arbitrary out of the system and the 80 point threshold is arbitrary. Make it mathematical.
As to the overriding issue, should we go back to a pure seniority based reserve? I don't want to and I'll fight that. That's my personal preference. I'd rather more benefit then few. Which is why I bring up the GS vs WS system. If seniority matters then the GS system should be seniority only like WS, no more wait til everyone else gets a chance. Which I guess was how it used to be done?
Of course, my favorite "go back to the way it used to be..." was this little one my buddy overhead in ATL. "We need to scheduling back in the pilot lounge and not on icrew!"
I sit reserve and hate that SC is so arbitrary. It should be predictable and I should be able to say, just like with a YS, "IF you need me to sit SC then I want the following time slots..." Instead you have to guess whether they want you and sometimes you screw yourself that way.
I want arbitrary out of the system and the 80 point threshold is arbitrary. Make it mathematical.
As to the overriding issue, should we go back to a pure seniority based reserve? I don't want to and I'll fight that. That's my personal preference. I'd rather more benefit then few. Which is why I bring up the GS vs WS system. If seniority matters then the GS system should be seniority only like WS, no more wait til everyone else gets a chance. Which I guess was how it used to be done?
Of course, my favorite "go back to the way it used to be..." was this little one my buddy overhead in ATL. "We need to scheduling back in the pilot lounge and not on icrew!"
03-07-2012, 10:55 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Developing: AA freezes pensions for all but the pilots
Cheers
George
Cheers
George
03-07-2012, 10:57 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
That's exactly how a senior pilot should do it, but in your category with the size of some of your trips you can probably do it better than mine. The key is not to be available on a weekend on mine, if you are, you're flying. So you just have to bid weekends off and as many days off at the end. It can be done but there is a limit.
Because the thing is if you get, and this happened to me last month, if you get lumped in with the weekends ON group during the week (say only be available for 3 days starting mon) then out you go. You want to try and hide in the 4+ day available crowd for as long as you can if you're senior.
Because the thing is if you get, and this happened to me last month, if you get lumped in with the weekends ON group during the week (say only be available for 3 days starting mon) then out you go. You want to try and hide in the 4+ day available crowd for as long as you can if you're senior.
I flew one trip last month and one SC. The trip was because it was to sucky to pick up and the SC was because no one else was legal in my bucket. This month I am a line holder with close to a max credit line and I am no where near the top of reserves.
03-07-2012, 11:00 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I am watching that deal and I wonder if Horton is trying to get their contracts thrown out.
Food for thought: If DAL only goes for their MIA/SA ops, it would be under the 25% threshold that would trigger their fragmentation clause.......
I often wonder what we are up to wrt to this, but at the end of the day, the whole thing sucks for the profession.
03-07-2012, 11:04 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
The senior guys will still get called out now and then on their SC days. If they bid to be on call the 1st 1/2 of the month they will not be immune from flying on their SC days. I am seeing senior reserves with higher raw scores than junior reserves and I'm seeing it in big categories.
This whole LOA 29 is not phased in quite yet. By the time it does, we will be in the summer uptick, so do not expect to see much benefit until the fall. By then they will have rightsized the 7ER and any benefit to sitting reserve as a senior pilot will generally be gone as all reserves will be flying a lot more.
03-07-2012, 11:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
on another topic does a VD resulting in a training event trigger a freeze?
03-07-2012, 11:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: west coast wannabe
Posts: 815
my 2 cents on new rsv system: The huge disparity that we're seeing now is because in some category we have a huge surplus, M88 in most bases. Senior guys are now smart enough to bid the last part of the month off, and therefore enhances their chances of staying home, while junior guys work in the beginning of the month.
Once summer arrives, and the number of lineholders increase, and reserve coverage drops, this disparity will diminish as we get leaner. I would give this system a try till labor day, and see if it holds up. It's way too early to get the pitchfork out.
Once summer arrives, and the number of lineholders increase, and reserve coverage drops, this disparity will diminish as we get leaner. I would give this system a try till labor day, and see if it holds up. It's way too early to get the pitchfork out.
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