Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-07-2012, 10:06 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Agreed. I did say that the company can decide what uniforms we wear... they just need to pay for them. Until that time when we're asked to wear pink tutus to work, let's please not send out any more uniform surveys.
03-07-2012, 10:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
That is the only shortcoming I see with a simple bucket RAW value number.Trip comes up.
Guess who flies?
You can try that again with 100 pilots, or 1,000. Still works the same.
03-07-2012, 10:12 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Sorry, I'm starting to use bold, underline, a lot. Next thing you know, I'm going to have to bring out the exclamation point! This issue really strikes a nerve with me: I've seen several different versions of Reserve at Delta, and the pure RAW system is by far the most heinous. I can't believe we would try to restore it when we just got done partially fixing it.
Later,
Sink r8.
Later,
Sink r8.
03-07-2012, 10:13 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
I would argue that the bucket size isn't driving this. If there is moderate flying in a catgeory, and the bucket size is for example 80, then the more senior pilots will have to work in the second half, and they will have to keep working until their own RAW score gets them into the higher bucket, while the junior guy is hanging out. In other words, a bigger bucket, with a moderate amount fo flying, means the senior guy is more likely to start later in the month, when the junior guy will have a quiet period.
If there is a lot of flying, you can't hide: the flying will hit everyone. A bucket isn't a guarantee of not flying, it's a guarantee of being picked last.
The real value of the system, when there is almost no flying, is that the senior-most guy has a good chance at not having to fly. When this happens, this sytem incentivizes senior pilots to bid Reserve, and junior pilots have access to more lines. It also helps commuters: the junior pilot that wants to fly a lot, and be done, actually can. The RAW score system without buckets made sure he was a prisoner in his crashpad, constantly in limbo, not free to go home, but not getting used either.
The people that complaint the most are the the peopel that have to fly weekends. Considering how much we now whoare for more, it's a by-product of senior pilots putting in WS during the week, and there is nothing the RAW buckets will do to prevent it.
If there is a lot of flying, you can't hide: the flying will hit everyone. A bucket isn't a guarantee of not flying, it's a guarantee of being picked last.
The real value of the system, when there is almost no flying, is that the senior-most guy has a good chance at not having to fly. When this happens, this sytem incentivizes senior pilots to bid Reserve, and junior pilots have access to more lines. It also helps commuters: the junior pilot that wants to fly a lot, and be done, actually can. The RAW score system without buckets made sure he was a prisoner in his crashpad, constantly in limbo, not free to go home, but not getting used either.
The people that complaint the most are the the peopel that have to fly weekends. Considering how much we now whoare for more, it's a by-product of senior pilots putting in WS during the week, and there is nothing the RAW buckets will do to prevent it.
03-07-2012, 10:17 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: SEA7ERB
Posts: 177
i just put a nice SLC 320B 2 day on the swap board for tomorrow, in a jam if anyone knows anyone-
Last edited by Launchpad475; 03-07-2012 at 10:39 AM.
03-07-2012, 10:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,598
03-07-2012, 10:38 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. Days off are distributed evenly by the company. Imagine a category with only two pilots. Senior tries to do what you suggest. Junior is off at the beginning.
Trip comes up.
Guess who flies?
You can try that again with 100 pilots, or 1,000. Still works the same.
Trip comes up.
Guess who flies?
You can try that again with 100 pilots, or 1,000. Still works the same.
I understand what you are saying, but there will always be a group that gets flow more. Junior guys will always go first in the first part of the month, and the more senior pilots will go second. Lets say the most junior are off the first half and the most senior are off the second half, it means that the most senior sit the first half well the bottom 1/3 with no bidding authority sit at home and the middle 1/3 work. In the next 1/3 of the month the senior pilots are still senior and the most junior start to filter in. They work first. Once we hit the last 12 days of the month the most senior 1/3 are off well the 1/3 most junior work and the middle 1/3 sit.
I saw it last month and for the senior guys that are paying attention, I am seeing it this month. You can tell from the wide report which senior pilots already figured out the game and strategically bid their off days.
Will it guarantee you not to work? No, but it greatly reduces you changes in months with there is little to no flying in the pot. As we get shorter in the spring and summer, it really does not matter.
03-07-2012, 10:39 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Sorry, I'm starting to use bold, underline, a lot. Next thing you know, I'm going to have to bring out the exclamation point! This issue really strikes a nerve with me: I've seen several different versions of Reserve at Delta, and the pure RAW system is by far the most heinous. I can't believe we would try to restore it when we just got done partially fixing it.
Later,
Sink r8.
Later,
Sink r8.
03-07-2012, 10:43 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
03-07-2012, 10:43 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
The first part of your premise is flawed. We HAD a pure seniority-based Reserve system, and as I recall, it was so beautiful you mostly had to worry about being senior enough for Reserve. This isn't a seniority-based sytem, it's a (RAW) system that was fundamentally designed NOT to respect seniority, and ensure lower credit time. The RAW system has one, and only one, benefficiary: the company.
Under the old system the weekends on crowd flew a lot because they were always down to min coverage, same now. So no change. In my category, it's not uncommon to see GS's on Sunday and 80 pilots on reserve with 21 required on Monday.
Under the new system for the weekends off crowd, and this is the dirty little secret and I'll let the cat out of the bag, most of us in my category flew 1 maybe 2 trips a month max and some of that was off SC. That was about 40-50 pilots. Now, a few pilots are flying 0 trips and the others a picking up the load and flying to the brink of bucket 2 but not necessarily getting there. Anotherwords, its seniority based for almost all of those weekends off pilots all month. A lot more pilots QOL has gone down than pilots whose QOL has gone up. I don't like that kind of system. I'll explain in another post.
mm, what I said was I'm benefiting from the system, not as much as some which was just adding color to the comment, but still don't believe it's right.
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