Originally Posted by Seaslap8

Exactly right, but you'll not see it acknowledged by some...instead we will see the continued lauding of the "SWAPA model", the "far better functioning union". There will be no explanation of the years they they spent as management's lackey with vastly lower pay-scales enabling Herb to undercut the rest of us.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The interesting thing is that if you get a chance to talk with some of their pilots involved in union work they don't want to be at the top. They want the rest of us to leap frog them. They want to see the traditional SW cost advantage restored so they can go back to the times of 10 percent growth year over year.

Originally Posted by More Bacon

congratulations to this month's winner of the "sailingfun/slowplay/alfaromero/pineapple guy Obfuscation Award."

I expect more of the same from you in the future. keep up the totally inadequate work. maybe you should "take your talents" to the ballot for MEC chair.


Or maybe you should just take your talents to South Beach.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The interesting thing is that if you get a chance to talk with some of their pilots involved in union work they don't want to be at the top. They want the rest of us to leap frog them. They want to see the traditional SW cost advantage restored so they can go back to the times of 10 percent growth year over year.

Originally Posted by More Bacon

Are you trying to convince us that we're not worth SWA+ pay? Why would you do that?

Isn't that management's job? Are you in management? whether you are or aren't, there's no excuse for sandbagging on this contract. sit down and shut the **** up.

Originally Posted by Columbia

Just like NASCAR fans who think wearing a short to the race means going formal.

Originally Posted by slowplay

I've only got payscales going back to 1990, but there haven't been any "ups and downs" in Southwest pay rates. I don't know how to do the FtB magic posting of excel docs, but your tfp converted to hourly rates undercut Delta by a minimum of 15% in September 1991 (DAL$143.21/LUV $122.04) up to 37% in May 2004 (DAL $256/LUV $162). Our pay plunged 32.5% with LOA-46 in December 2004, and was reduced a further 14% in December 2005. LOA-46 was the first time your payrates equaled ours; prior to that your company had created a labor arbitrage where your pilots worked for less in wages but "made it up" in growth. Your CEO sent a cautionary letter in December now that the rest of the industry is below you in wage rates and the arbitrage is no longer working.

Your contract is amendable in September, no? Maybe you guys can finally raise the bar for others to pull up on rather than what you've done throughout your history.

Originally Posted by slowplay

Your contract is amendable in September, no? Maybe you guys can finally raise the bar for others to pull up on rather than what you've done throughout your history.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You and your chief leaker sailingfun have done nothing but tell us the SWAPA contract is unattainable/not what we really want anyway. Why would you want SWAPA to raise the bar further when you do nothing but try to get us to accept our fate of being below the current SWAPA bar?

Carl

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

Geez, T. Sometimes you really have problems with the nuances of a discussion. Maybe if you spent more time actually reading and thinking about what I say instead of trying to find some inconsistency to play "gotcha"... you'd be able to come up with more appropriate comments.

Let's talk specific numbers that I am advocating and see how it compares with your take on my post...

The average SWA Captain (including reserves) makes $234,000/year. The average Delta MD-88 Captain (assuming 80 hours per month by the time you include reserves) makes $161,280.

In order to restore our current pay rates to C2K+COLA (all other things being equal), we need a 72.5% increase in rate.

In order to match our current MD-88 pilot W2 pay to SWA pilot W2 pay, we need a 45.5% increase.

I have clearly stated on multiple occasions that I believe our objective should be C2K+COLA and that, being reasonable, I would be willing to accept as a minimum pay parity with the average SWA pilot. So my range is from 72.5% desired to 45.5% minimum acceptable. Are you with with me so far?

Now, let's imagine a situation in which SWA pilots were to get a big pay raise. Let's say they get a 20% pay raise. (I'm not saying this is what will happen... I'm just making a point.) That would put their average Captain at $280,800.

Now, let's imagine a situation in which we are able to negotiate pay parity with SWA's current pilot pay. That would put our average MD-88 Captain at $234,000. Like I said before, that would be minimally acceptable to me. If SWA pilots get a pay increase tomorrow, do I care that they are jumping ahead of that? Hell no! I'd be happy for them. If anything, it helps us to more easily obtain future increases to hopefully get us closer to that C2K+COLA I think we should be shooting for. And like I said before, I don't see it as a competition. I just want to be compensated appropriately, and certainly not compensated as if we were still in bankruptcy. The current level of SWA pay is what I have identified as minimally appropriate.