Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-01-2012, 12:45 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
The 747/777/330/765 make up 12% of the fleet.. period. Management's decision to buy those airplanes, or NOT buy those airplanes, which they aren't... and you have been here long enough to know that they ain't gonna buy any more 747s. What airplane has management bought lately? 737-900. A replacement to the 757 and 767. Will it pay as much as the aircraft they are replacing? I'll let you decide for yourself on that one. Personally, I doubt it.. So we.. once again.. take pay cut based on a management decision. Why do we handcuff ourselves to that contract after contract? I would prefer longevity based pay based on how long you have been here, but that is too hard a sell, so I concede to banding because it gives some guys a little comfort with the whole productivity thing.. (that is a myth, because yet again.. WE do not buy airplanes, management does.) Oh, I would leave the 757 in the widebody band, but since they are going away, it really wouldn't matter...
What I would LOVE is for somebody to convince me that productivity is a valid reason for staying away from banded pay. However, that logic cannot say anything about faster more people more cargo, because as I said before, management makes the purchasing decisions. It would be up to us to make us expensive enough so that they would want economy of scale. Bottom line for me is.. I push throttles. Pay me for doing so. While I love the 76, I don't really care what the airplane is as long as I am getting paid to fly it.
What I would LOVE is for somebody to convince me that productivity is a valid reason for staying away from banded pay. However, that logic cannot say anything about faster more people more cargo, because as I said before, management makes the purchasing decisions. It would be up to us to make us expensive enough so that they would want economy of scale. Bottom line for me is.. I push throttles. Pay me for doing so. While I love the 76, I don't really care what the airplane is as long as I am getting paid to fly it.
03-01-2012, 12:46 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
What the company wants is pay banding. It could be a good thing on narrow body jets, but on the 744, as soon as we agreed to band it with say the 330,765,and ER I bet we would see the 773 or 748i.
It depends on what this pilot group wants, but as with everything, there are unintended consequences for every action. We are currently not seeing those jets because it is cheaper for us to operate the 767-300ER's across the pond and AF operate the large metal. Banding may allow larger jets to be placed at DAL, but one must weigh the pros and cons of banding in both cases, then vote on it.
It depends on what this pilot group wants, but as with everything, there are unintended consequences for every action. We are currently not seeing those jets because it is cheaper for us to operate the 767-300ER's across the pond and AF operate the large metal. Banding may allow larger jets to be placed at DAL, but one must weigh the pros and cons of banding in both cases, then vote on it.
03-01-2012, 12:47 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
THAT's where we are NOW!!!!! That's where we are going!!!! In case you haven't noticed, the 737-900 is smaller than the 767.
03-01-2012, 12:51 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
The 747/777/330/765 make up 12% of the fleet.. period. Management's decision to buy those airplanes, or NOT buy those airplanes, which they aren't... and you have been here long enough to know that they ain't gonna buy any more 747s. What airplane has management bought lately? 737-900. A replacement to the 757 and 767. Will it pay as much as the aircraft they are replacing? I'll let you decide for yourself on that one. Personally, I doubt it.. So we.. once again.. take pay cut based on a management decision. Why do we handcuff ourselves to that contract after contract? I would prefer longevity based pay based on how long you have been here, but that is too hard a sell, so I concede to banding because it gives some guys a little comfort with the whole productivity thing.. (that is a myth, because yet again.. WE do not buy airplanes, management does.) Oh, I would leave the 757 in the widebody band, but since they are going away, it really wouldn't matter...
What I would LOVE is for somebody to convince me that productivity is a valid reason for staying away from banded pay. However, that logic cannot say anything about faster more people more cargo, because as I said before, management makes the purchasing decisions. It would be up to us to make us expensive enough so that they would want economy of scale. Bottom line for me is.. I push throttles. Pay me for doing so. While I love the 76, I don't really care what the airplane is as long as I am getting paid to fly it.
What I would LOVE is for somebody to convince me that productivity is a valid reason for staying away from banded pay. However, that logic cannot say anything about faster more people more cargo, because as I said before, management makes the purchasing decisions. It would be up to us to make us expensive enough so that they would want economy of scale. Bottom line for me is.. I push throttles. Pay me for doing so. While I love the 76, I don't really care what the airplane is as long as I am getting paid to fly it.
RA has commented on the four engine jets many times throughout the last decade, but keep in mind; The 748i is 20% more efficient than the 744. If DAL knows they can fill it, it makes sense to buy a handful of them. It just depends on where they want the airline to go. If they opt to operate an airline the 773 and the 748 could have their place. The 789 will also be a major player in our fleet going forward for those point to point routes in Asia, and the ME.
The 748i would be good on ATL-ICN (good enough for a 380), ATL-DXB, ATL-CAI, NYC-TLV, DTW-HKG, DTW-ICN, LAX-ICN, ATL-NRT, LAX-NRT, ATL-JNB etc. Anywhere we need a lot of cargo lift it makes sense. Frequency can solve that, but we lack lift and frequency in to a lot of markets.
03-01-2012, 12:54 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
True dat.. but they DO burn twice as much gas.. or more... and there is a point of diminishing returns. When those airplanes operating margin is what they want it to be, they get parked. There is a curve, and when it hits that curve, out they go. They will cut their losses rather than continue losing money (when the point to operate the aircraft becomes too great) regardless of how much they have invested in lie flats etc...
03-01-2012, 12:55 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
There are many things at play here wrt to the WB fleet; Fences, the JV, debt, mergers or acquisitions and the economy all are playing a part.
RA recently stated to a LCA friend, that we would not see a 787 until they produced at least 200. Well 200 and 2020 are vastly different based on the planned production run.
03-01-2012, 12:56 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
RA has commented on the four engine jets many times throughout the last decade, but keep in mind; The 748i is 20% more efficient than the 744. If DAL knows they can fill it, it makes sense to buy a handful of them. It just depends on where they want the airline to go. If they opt to operate an airline the 773 and the 748 could have their place. The 789 will also be a major player in our fleet going forward for those point to point routes in Asia, and the ME.
The 748i would be good on ATL-ICN (good enough for a 380), ATL-DXB, ATL-CAI, NYC-TLV, DTW-HKG, DTW-ICN, LAX-ICN, ATL-NRT, LAX-NRT, ATL-JNB etc. Anywhere we need a lot of cargo lift it makes sense. Frequency can solve that, but we lack lift and frequency in to a lot of markets.
The 748i would be good on ATL-ICN (good enough for a 380), ATL-DXB, ATL-CAI, NYC-TLV, DTW-HKG, DTW-ICN, LAX-ICN, ATL-NRT, LAX-NRT, ATL-JNB etc. Anywhere we need a lot of cargo lift it makes sense. Frequency can solve that, but we lack lift and frequency in to a lot of markets.
03-01-2012, 12:56 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
True dat.. but they DO burn twice as much gas.. or more... and there is a point of diminishing returns. When those airplanes operating margin is what they want it to be, they get parked. There is a curve, and when it hits that curve, out they go. They will cut their losses rather than continue losing money (when the point to operate the aircraft becomes too great) regardless of how much they have invested in lie flats etc...
The do burn a lot more gas, but they carry about 60K more pounds of cargo than a ER. DAL fills those birds up with cargo on almost every leg. With the CASM where it is, there is a lot of room for fuel to spike. The truer fact is when the cargo goes away the jets go away.
03-01-2012, 12:57 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
It's a fantastic day here in West Tennessee. I'm going out to the deer lease to see the new old tractor we got to manage the land. Two Delta pilots managed to break the old W. German John Deere last season. Luckily, we have four retired mechanics in the lease. I had my "hair shirt" on earlier this morning. I value each of you as my peers and the efforts you make each day on behalf of Delta Air Lines. I stand by my comments and appreciate the discourse. We are at a watershed. Frustration is building to a fever pitch. We can use that to change the course of our careers, or we can Red Book/Green Book, Delta/Western/PanAm ourselves into the mediocre middle of the pack. I was hired at Western, got the green light at Delta, went to Northwest and flew on the Red side, spent the last 23 years in a Green base and had a relative that flew for PanAm. They are or were all among the best this profession has offered. Unity.
03-01-2012, 12:57 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Sell me on this point. And I assume you meant the 739 should be with the 757/767.. But convince me why there should now be 3 bands.
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