TheManager

Love to know why they never joined the fight. Then again, look at their successes in their other fights. TWA v ALPA, United Pilots v ALPA, their own office staff v ALPA, etc. etc.

Whidbey

Can you point to something I wrote that you disagree with on a factual basis?

I'm just trying to make the point that we need to police our own profession. The company or the ATA sure aren't going to. Examining management's arguments might provide instruction as to weaknesses in our own.

In my opinion, it has been far too easy to become an airline pilot in the last ten years. That fact does not improve our leverage at the negotiating table. As such, it's something we need to examine and improve. Getting those flight time requirements passed and enforced should be a top priority at ALPA national, in my opinion.

Relatedly, what is the current turbine PIC requirement to be considered qualified at SWA? It think it fluctuates between 1300-1500. That requirement makes sense. If you're hiring people as Captains, how have they demonstrated that ability if they have not served in said capacity?

You're off by a few.

Exactly. Getting into that 5500 has become way too easy, and a huge percentage of that 5500 is out there right now flying half of Delta's daily flights.

I was referring to T's comments about pilots who showed up after C2k talking about what they had lost. I wasn't here during 2000 or the bankruptcy either. While I think it's criminal what was done to the pilot group, I cannot state that I was directly effected by that loss.

If I got on at a major airline in my mid twenties never having commanded a high performance aircraft, or with the ability to count on one hand how many times I'd flown a jet aircraft from takeoff to land without an autopilot (and under the supervision of someone else at that), I wouldn't be loudly proclaiming that I deserve the same career prestige and compensation as our Captain ranks, many of whom are more likely to have pounded around thunderstorms hauling night freight, or been over Baghdad in 1991.

Further, I wouldn't be making that argument if I spent my first several years in the industry doing the same job for less and undercutting the pilots who made this career a profession.

In my opinion, ALPA representation of of many of these pilots serves to water down a the professional standard. The fact that so many pilots who have not been subjected to a meaningful standard of selection upon entering the profession are represented by ALPA also handcuffs our union with respect to arguments that they can make that would support (mainline) Delta pilots.

Delta is not attracting the cream of the crop right now. The guys in the active component where I drill that are even interested in the airlines have Delta as a plan C or D. You said Delta pay was a transition. With your resume, you are literally making half of what you could elsewhere.

Two of your classmates have left for Southwest, and I bet a bottle of Macallan 18 against that Air Force neckerchief of yours that at least one, maybe two will be hauling boxes very soon. My goal is for this contract to reverse that trend.

1234

I don't understand why everyone is so concerned with seeing the "opener". I don't really care what the opener is, as I am sure that is not what we will end up with. What I care about is what they send out for ratification. If it is weak, it will get voted down. I believe in the majority of our 12,000+ pilots that we can think on our own. Most of us deliberate with our friends, peers, coworkers about the merits of a contract and I believe that we can come to a logical conclusion. Just as we are not all lemmings that will willingly go down the path of "we must give concessions or status quo", we are not all lemmings that will follow the endless path of full restoration plus cola. Reality is somewhere in between these two positions.

TheManager

Looks like you were off by 17%, nearly double your response of 20, as compared to the results of the other guys survey's final count.

1234

Your posts looks to me like it was pretty competitive when you were hired. Cream of the crop even. You were hired under the current contract and in the last 1.5 years, you have gotten a 4% raise with profit sharing. Apparently our current contract was enough to get you and all of the other highly qualified applicants to join the ranks as Delta pilots. I am just wondering what has changed in the last year and a half that requires a major change in pilot compensation to get qualified candidates?

Bill Lumberg

Amazing! All of the MEC members are out in force on APC! Still managing expectations, one APC member at a time...... Hey, we are 4 times as profitable as SWA, we fly large equipment internationally, and a year and a half ago no other legacy was hiring. He probably didn't want to pay for a type rating, and DL supposedly had the best to offer, until ALPA started managing expectations.....

SailorJerry

Have you considered that the best thing we could possibly do is sign a short term deal (3-4 years) then when all you informed types start punching out (or retiring because APC stress does you in) the rest of us can get to work on a real deal based on the basic market force of supply and demand? What makes you think you're worth more than what the market dictates? Because you ain't flying a 707 or a DC-10. Can you please explain what you're doing in "real life" to artificially shrink our supply or to create demand?

I guarantee the second the regionals can't staff their own airlines, DAL will come crawling to us to strengthen our own scope. I just hope someone will be smart enough to say "We told you so".

And people think the younger generation feels entitled...

Just a thought.

1234

Not sure how you come up with "we are 4 times as profitable as SWA..."

Year 2010:
DAL net income = $593 million
DAL total revenue = $31.75 Billion
SWA net income = $459 million
SWA total revenue = $12.1 billion

So, just by having ALPA start to manage expectations, we went from first to last in best company to work for.

Bill Lumberg

Hi, did you know when our debt is paid down to $10 billion by 2013 our interest payments on that debt decrease by $500 million per year? That's an extra $500 million per year we don't have to pay. Some of that would look great in our pockets, especially since we already gave up our pensions for half of the pilot group. But, you knew that......ALPA sure doesn't advertise that very much. We should go after that, it's called restoration.

Bill Lumberg

How about last year? We made about $1.2 billion net, and SWA made around $300 million. That's 4 times as much. UAL made 6 times more than SWA did. Why do you use 2010 numbers? Manipulation at it's best. Use current data please, you're starting to sound like Sailing......