Carl Spackler

I'm certain that it would send management slinking away because any attempt by management to use another employee group for any reason is forbidden in a Section 6 negotiations under the RLA.

Carl

acl65pilot

You assume that all people tip 20%. I will tell ya that people are normally a lot cheaper than that!

flyallnite

Been hearing this refrain a lot lately. The fact is though, that people pay more on SWA because it's SWA, and that's who they fly. They don't even bother to check other airlines.

A lot of our sales are corporate, in bulk, and involve contracts. We have a strong loyalty program, with a lot of perks that people consider when buying a ticket.

Will Ma and Pa Kettle buy a ticket on Allegiant to go to Vegas this spring? You betcha. Do we want their business? Not so much anymore. It's all about the HVC now.

The days of some fly by night operator swooping into markets with a bunch of brand new Airbii and a new operating certificate are over. It's a pay to play market now, and it's all full up.

Carl Spackler

That was sailingfun. That's what he does.

You might get to see the company's opener, but you'll not see DALPA's opener. You need to understand the DALPA strategy here. If DALPA released the incredibly weak opener, they'd be kicked out of power and they know it. DALPA's only hope to shove through a weak TA is to keep you in the dark until a TA is reached. Then send out the TA with the following warning: "This is as good as it's going to get guys. You need to vote YES...and if you vote NO, our negotiators and your MEC will resign and we'll have to start the whole process over again from the beginning."

When this happens, you probably get 51% because of people caving in to fear. More accurately, their spouses caving in to fear. Key to any of this happening is DALPA not showing the opener.

Carl

buzzpat

No, we factored some would tip 10%, some 15% and some 20%. Hit a little turbulence and land in some gusty winds and I bet you hit 20% a lot more then you think. We actually had a bout with severe turbies a few days ago that lasted for awhile. When we landed, I had a lady seek me out and give me a hug. She'd have been good for at least 20%.

sailingfun

All you have to do is talk to your reps. They are not going to give details but they will give you a general idea. A survey online by DPA has no validity to what pilots actually put in the real survey they knew was going to be used to construct a opener. Most pilots are very aware that if you over reach under the RLA you end up iced long term. There is a time value to a contract. The Dalpa survey unlike the DPA survey has real implications and pilots who are concerned about maximizing their income and quality of life for themselves and their families put a lot of thought into what they felt was achievable. I told my reps what I had put in the survey and asked how what I put down compared with others. I was told I was right at the mean in the surveys. My upfront raise was 20 percent with ongoing 5 percent raises over the life of a 4 year contract. Total 40. I wanted a lot on the other items and I was told I asked more then most in those areas. My emphasis areas were increasing copilot pay to a 15 year scale taking the max up to 75 percent of CA pay. Sick leave back to the pre 1113 program, DC up to 18 percent, reserve pay 5 hours below ALV with a 70 hour minimum, Vacation and training pay and credit for line construction and actual pay with increases to 4 hours per day for both. Section 1 gross weight maximum reduced to pre LOA 46 weight with current contracts sunsetted. 6th week of vacation restored. Distributed training pays 1 for 1.
I tried to figure a value for all I ask for and am guessing it is worth about 3/4 of a billion per year by the end of the contract. Thats about half the cost of a true restoration contract. Some items such a pay and vacation becoming pay and credit would have to be phased in because they will require several hundred more CA positions. I would give them a 2 year phase in on items like that.

Too Tall

Latest DC9 rumor is staying until summer of 2013 now for those that are interested.

Jesse

Oh, so all trust, no verify. Got it.

dtwairbus320

You are absolutely right about that but I don't think Delta paying you or I what we're worth is going to raise the ticket prices. Look how much Delta has made. They can afford to cough it back up to us and settle for a more modest profit. If I were management, when these annual reports come out with these astronomical profits, I would think to myself "Oh ****, now the pilots are going to want their money back." But hardly any of us seem to think that way. We just get excited about our profit sharing checks and fail to realize all the other employee groups are getting their profit sharing checks too. Guess which labor group allowed them to have their's?

My point was also meant to be more broad. As an entire profession we must demand the highest compensation equal to our level of expertise. If we were truly a unionized workforce in the true sense of the word, every pilot at every airline would be making the same amount based on the job. Just like the Pipefitters and these wages would be kept high. There would be no pay comparisons among airlines. We would all be pilots payed according to our union's schedule. If the airline can't afford to pay us what we are worth, then they don't belong in the airline business.

NA

Sink r8

Here is a question... if the company doesn't put out it's opener, assuming that opener isn't a poke in the eye, why would we negotiate in public with our own demands?

I recently had an interesting discussion with a rep about this, and about how we put out our C2K opener. He reminded me we put out ours only after the company put up something obscene and ridiculous.

As I recall, we made $1.8 billion in 2008, the most for any airline ever at that time, and the company's term-sheet looked ridiculous, and insulting. It galvanized the group, and resulted in a strong strike vote.

Personally, I was sure we would publish our opener. My reps are asking for input, but made a good point recently: if you're releasing it, you're generally trying to support your negotiating goals, make some sort of an impact. Not satisfy curiosity.

So let's say we put out what we want on day 1 of the amendable date.

Then what?

In effect, you've announced the end of constructive engagement, and told Moak to stick it, with his boot-licking attitude, and we're done talking. This is what we want, and we know we deserve it. We're going to do it the old fashion way.

Then what?

Then, nothing. Sound of crickets. Don't bother winding your watch, because this one is going to take a calendar. Like a Mayan calendar, where the world ends in 2012. We can then invite our friends at uCAL and LCC, and have ourselves a barbecue, compare notes. We'll need chicken, because it's cheaper, and maybe a few fourties. They still make Old Milwaukee?

I guess I do want to see the opener, but I also want to see it for a reason, and for some purpose. If it comes out immediately, it tells me the company isn't even close, and it tells me RA is playing defense. And defense under the RLA is the easiest game to play.