Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-29-2012, 01:34 PM
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02-29-2012, 01:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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Meh...not worth it. I'll let others do their own thinking...
Nu
Nu
02-29-2012, 01:46 PM
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Flame on soldier.
02-29-2012, 01:49 PM
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From a lurker and occasional poster-
Great discussion about pay and contract expectations.
One thing that I think we're losing sight of is that there are literally thousands of pilots that want jobs at Delta that are willing to work harder than we are for much less money.
The company's position is a direct result of that fact. It's simple economics. Deserve has got nothing to do with it.
One other thing. Delta has been hiring a good number of folks with zero PIC. Safety arguments aside, that strategy is going to have an impact on the pilot group. Those pilots have less opportunity to gain employment elsewhere and I believe their votes may reflect that.
Tsquare's statements about youth entitlement in this case are dead on, IMHO. The pilots in the top half of the seniority list are a product of a much more selective process than us youngsters.
It's much harder to get an electrician's apprenticeship than to gain admission to a puppy mill. If those flight hour requirements don't get implemented and enforced, what used to be a profession will have been irreversibly changed to more of a trade.
Great discussion about pay and contract expectations.
One thing that I think we're losing sight of is that there are literally thousands of pilots that want jobs at Delta that are willing to work harder than we are for much less money.
The company's position is a direct result of that fact. It's simple economics. Deserve has got nothing to do with it.
One other thing. Delta has been hiring a good number of folks with zero PIC. Safety arguments aside, that strategy is going to have an impact on the pilot group. Those pilots have less opportunity to gain employment elsewhere and I believe their votes may reflect that.
Tsquare's statements about youth entitlement in this case are dead on, IMHO. The pilots in the top half of the seniority list are a product of a much more selective process than us youngsters.
It's much harder to get an electrician's apprenticeship than to gain admission to a puppy mill. If those flight hour requirements don't get implemented and enforced, what used to be a profession will have been irreversibly changed to more of a trade.
How we perceive ourselves is what it's all about. If we have the attitude that we should accept less because someone else will do it cheaper is not the right attitude. Hundreds of people trust us to fly them in a multimillion dollar thin metal tube at 35,000 feet going 600mph over great distances every time we go to work. Stop and think about that. The level of trust and responsibility the public and our management places in our hands is not comparable to any other "trade." There are many other professions that pay more with much less responsibility.
The new flight time requirements are a great idea.
NA
02-29-2012, 01:50 PM
No longer cares
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02-29-2012, 01:50 PM
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Posts: 243
Interesting. Recently listened to a base ALPA rep explain that we should not be focused on this above. Instead of using the metric outlined in the agreement, EASK for passenger and freight, he claimed that we should focus on the block hours.
His next claim was that we are way ahead in block hours as compared to the Atlantic JV partners to the tune of 68% done by Delta. Unbelievable the spin, but 100% true.
His next claim was that we are way ahead in block hours as compared to the Atlantic JV partners to the tune of 68% done by Delta. Unbelievable the spin, but 100% true.
02-29-2012, 01:58 PM
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02-29-2012, 01:59 PM
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Position: 767er Captain
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I have nothing against going to fly a contract gig. I am just amazed why anyone would want to go live in the planet's anus, but like you said, to each his own.
Tsquare, there is a world beyond Florida. For example, I don't think the beaches in Thailand looks anything like the planet's anus when compared to parts of Florida, Detroit, New York etc. (Many of my Far East expat friends live in Thailand and commute. There are even some current Delta pilots living there). Now... there are a lot of beautiful l-asses running around, which is a whole another topic. It's cheap to live, it's sunny year round, there are plenty of women and the beer is cheap. It will work for me if Delta plays nasty. Like you said, to each it's own. But I agree with you on the middle east. I can't do it... it's too different.
Don't inflate the importance of your leaving.. just sayin'... There are thousands of guys that would kill to have your seniority number.
Just stop talking like the company owes YOU something or you will leave. I promise you that they couldn't care less.
My leaving Delta will not make any ripples... granted. However, I won't be the only one leaving. When the retirements pick up, it will be an issue. Talk to any random regional guys/gals out there and most of the time the pick is Fedex, UPS, Southwest, Emirates etc. Delta is where they plan to go, if plan A,B,C and D does not work out. There will be a lot of pilots who will take the Delta job. But they will get their ratings and move onto greener pastures when those doors open. The old days of Delta occupying the top of the hiring food chain is slipping away. If nothing is done, Delta will have a problem attracting qualified talent.
I'm sorry if I offend you, but I do think that the company owes the pilot group a restoration of our contract... to the minimum. We gave out a temporary pay-cut. But that loan is long past the due date.
Unlike the management, we don't have the power to pat each other on the back and write million dollar bonus checks. But we are pilots. We are an extremely important piece of the finanancial back-bone of an airline. If we all operate the airplane exactly 'by the book' in the most conservative fashion, that can easily wipe out their entire profit book. I am a very important piece and so are you. Lets act like it and we can turn this industry around. The old days of scabbing are gone. We got two pilots from the entire US who crossed the picket line during the Spirit Airlines pilot strike... a far cry from the old Lorenzo-Continental days. I'm damn proud of today's airline pilot group in the United States. With massive retirements in the horizon and record low number of graduating pilots, the supply-demand curve is turning to our favor as well. Let's sieze the opportunity, rather than making lame excuses for the management.
That's all I have to say about that!
Tsquare, there is a world beyond Florida. For example, I don't think the beaches in Thailand looks anything like the planet's anus when compared to parts of Florida, Detroit, New York etc. (Many of my Far East expat friends live in Thailand and commute. There are even some current Delta pilots living there). Now... there are a lot of beautiful l-asses running around, which is a whole another topic. It's cheap to live, it's sunny year round, there are plenty of women and the beer is cheap. It will work for me if Delta plays nasty. Like you said, to each it's own. But I agree with you on the middle east. I can't do it... it's too different.
Don't inflate the importance of your leaving.. just sayin'... There are thousands of guys that would kill to have your seniority number.
Just stop talking like the company owes YOU something or you will leave. I promise you that they couldn't care less.
My leaving Delta will not make any ripples... granted. However, I won't be the only one leaving. When the retirements pick up, it will be an issue. Talk to any random regional guys/gals out there and most of the time the pick is Fedex, UPS, Southwest, Emirates etc. Delta is where they plan to go, if plan A,B,C and D does not work out. There will be a lot of pilots who will take the Delta job. But they will get their ratings and move onto greener pastures when those doors open. The old days of Delta occupying the top of the hiring food chain is slipping away. If nothing is done, Delta will have a problem attracting qualified talent.
I'm sorry if I offend you, but I do think that the company owes the pilot group a restoration of our contract... to the minimum. We gave out a temporary pay-cut. But that loan is long past the due date.
Unlike the management, we don't have the power to pat each other on the back and write million dollar bonus checks. But we are pilots. We are an extremely important piece of the finanancial back-bone of an airline. If we all operate the airplane exactly 'by the book' in the most conservative fashion, that can easily wipe out their entire profit book. I am a very important piece and so are you. Lets act like it and we can turn this industry around. The old days of scabbing are gone. We got two pilots from the entire US who crossed the picket line during the Spirit Airlines pilot strike... a far cry from the old Lorenzo-Continental days. I'm damn proud of today's airline pilot group in the United States. With massive retirements in the horizon and record low number of graduating pilots, the supply-demand curve is turning to our favor as well. Let's sieze the opportunity, rather than making lame excuses for the management.
That's all I have to say about that!
Some of what you said I agree with.. probably more than you realize. Some I do not.
As far as how many leave, it's like Cramer says "Therer's always a bull market somewhere" You're leaving will creat a bull market here at DAL for someone else. There are thousands of qualified pilots out there that DO have DAL as their first choice.. actually I am not going to get into that argument with you. I'll let Cramer's quote speak for itself. booyah
02-29-2012, 02:00 PM
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02-29-2012, 02:07 PM
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Interesting. Recently listened to a base ALPA rep explain that we should not be focused on this above. Instead of using the metric outlined in the agreement, EASK for passenger and freight, he claimed that we should focus on the block hours.
His next claim was that we are way ahead in block hours as compared to the Atlantic JV partners to the tune of 68% done by Delta. Unbelievable the spin, but 100% true.
His next claim was that we are way ahead in block hours as compared to the Atlantic JV partners to the tune of 68% done by Delta. Unbelievable the spin, but 100% true.
The reverse is also true. We have to cut many more flights to get the same EASK reduction than they have to, so more block hours cut year over year.
Unfortunately we have reduced our EASKs at a greater rate than them and required to cancel/reduce many more flights than them, thus many more block hours cut on our side vs theirs.
Ask how many flights they cut, and how many we cut and how many block hours/month the cuts represent...
Cheers
George
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