Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-28-2012, 05:34 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Absolutely fly her over there.
Recently, I was there with my other employer. The dust in the air stuck in my throat. The nicest view from the tallest tower sucks. The beer's expensive.
There's a reason why Emirates pays so well: because enough people like me see living in Dubai as a hardship. I'd probably go there if it boiled down to a choice between living in Dubai or living under a bridge, but first thought would be, "Which bridge?"
Recently, I was there with my other employer. The dust in the air stuck in my throat. The nicest view from the tallest tower sucks. The beer's expensive.
There's a reason why Emirates pays so well: because enough people like me see living in Dubai as a hardship. I'd probably go there if it boiled down to a choice between living in Dubai or living under a bridge, but first thought would be, "Which bridge?"
)
02-28-2012, 05:39 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 243
[QUOTE=sailingfun;1142379]
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it almost impossible to make a illegitimate comparison of a 2 pilot operation to a 2, 3, and 4 pilot operation using the DOT reported numbers?
Looking at the MIT website, when looking at "Pilot Cost" they put the word "Unadjusted" in the title for this very reason. For this reason it is also very hard to compare say Delta and United because you don't know the make up of their 2, 3, or 4 person crews without doing a lot more research.
I will also submit that no two airlines uses the same underlying data to come up with there numbers because there is no requirement by the DOT to do so. For instance the DOT ask for an item like "pilot salary" but does not say which pilots must be counted. So airline A might add Line Pilots and Management pilots but exclude pilots on long term sick leave while another airline might include every pilot on the seniority list. This is just an example but when you look at all the item that go into the DOT reported number you get some wide variance.
Also, to be bluntly honest, any dumb pilot can go find and look at DOT numbers or the compiled numbers of someone like the MIT Project but I expect my union to be putting in a lot more effort and doing a lot more research into what the real data is when looking at other airlines.
As Bar just stated Delta is in a displacement mode which is one of the reasons Delta's pilot cost are high right now. I am on my 5th airplane training cycle in under 5 years. Depending on the amount of downward movement on the March bid I could be going to my 6th.
Airlines, and businesses in general, have a competitive reason for not letting others know their true cost and if we are relying on the numbers that 10 different airlines are coming up with and reporting we are shooting ourselves in the foot.
Looking at the MIT website, when looking at "Pilot Cost" they put the word "Unadjusted" in the title for this very reason. For this reason it is also very hard to compare say Delta and United because you don't know the make up of their 2, 3, or 4 person crews without doing a lot more research.
I will also submit that no two airlines uses the same underlying data to come up with there numbers because there is no requirement by the DOT to do so. For instance the DOT ask for an item like "pilot salary" but does not say which pilots must be counted. So airline A might add Line Pilots and Management pilots but exclude pilots on long term sick leave while another airline might include every pilot on the seniority list. This is just an example but when you look at all the item that go into the DOT reported number you get some wide variance.
Also, to be bluntly honest, any dumb pilot can go find and look at DOT numbers or the compiled numbers of someone like the MIT Project but I expect my union to be putting in a lot more effort and doing a lot more research into what the real data is when looking at other airlines.
As Bar just stated Delta is in a displacement mode which is one of the reasons Delta's pilot cost are high right now. I am on my 5th airplane training cycle in under 5 years. Depending on the amount of downward movement on the March bid I could be going to my 6th.
Airlines, and businesses in general, have a competitive reason for not letting others know their true cost and if we are relying on the numbers that 10 different airlines are coming up with and reporting we are shooting ourselves in the foot.
02-28-2012, 05:56 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
You can almost dream up what would be said. A pilot's advocate would list all of the "chapter 11 rates, pensions, etc." and they would counter with all of the "buts".
Those "buts" will be leaked out from now until there is a TA. I think we just need to get used to it. Maybe a little boot camp in preparation?
"but, you guys don't wear your uniforms right."
"but, if you're so good at what you do why do we have ##### ASAPS and #### violations each year?"
"but, what happened on that flight in ###, are we going to have to write off that airplane?"
"but, you have pilots that only fly one trip every two months, and you want a pay raise? Do you know how many employees at Delta would like two months off with pay?" <<< that's real. A buddy of mine on the southside deals with that all of the time.
"but," fill in the blanks. $10 says we can figure out some of the stuff before it's even said with the key being coming up with the rebuttal. The only disheartening thing will be the source of the leaks. There is only one place I expect it to come from and can tolerate it.
Those "buts" will be leaked out from now until there is a TA. I think we just need to get used to it. Maybe a little boot camp in preparation?
"but, you guys don't wear your uniforms right."
"but, if you're so good at what you do why do we have ##### ASAPS and #### violations each year?"
"but, what happened on that flight in ###, are we going to have to write off that airplane?"
"but, you have pilots that only fly one trip every two months, and you want a pay raise? Do you know how many employees at Delta would like two months off with pay?" <<< that's real. A buddy of mine on the southside deals with that all of the time.
"but," fill in the blanks. $10 says we can figure out some of the stuff before it's even said with the key being coming up with the rebuttal. The only disheartening thing will be the source of the leaks. There is only one place I expect it to come from and can tolerate it.
02-28-2012, 06:01 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Flew with a Line Check Airman last night...we were blitzing. He stated that in a recent meeting the discission was that interviews would occur late this year for 2013 hires, about 500, then 500 annually.
We were discussing the future contract as well, but their expectations weren't as high as mine. They anticipated negotiations to be completed by September, to give the company some time for its long-term plan. Management doesn't want a long drawn-out fight.
Oh, and get ready for tablet PC's in the cockpit. The LCA's preference was the iPad - I asked if they were funded, and he said yes. Fuel savings from the loss of weight from the kits means that we'd quickly see a return on investment.
Regarding the MD-88/90 flight instruments modification, it's getting a re-look for approval because the memory in the MD-90 is far less than the database in the MD-88, which limits operations, so it is actually a decent business case for the flexibility it provides.
And everybody loves Richard...they don't want to lose him and get another Leo Mullins.
We were discussing the future contract as well, but their expectations weren't as high as mine. They anticipated negotiations to be completed by September, to give the company some time for its long-term plan. Management doesn't want a long drawn-out fight.
Oh, and get ready for tablet PC's in the cockpit. The LCA's preference was the iPad - I asked if they were funded, and he said yes. Fuel savings from the loss of weight from the kits means that we'd quickly see a return on investment.
Regarding the MD-88/90 flight instruments modification, it's getting a re-look for approval because the memory in the MD-90 is far less than the database in the MD-88, which limits operations, so it is actually a decent business case for the flexibility it provides.
And everybody loves Richard...they don't want to lose him and get another Leo Mullins.
Last edited by Elvis90; 02-28-2012 at 06:43 AM.
02-28-2012, 06:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: New to mother D
Posts: 123
It's interesting how folks are getting away with saying "I'm not willing to give up any scope!" like it's a bold or aggressive statement. A General puffing up his chest and shouting to his troops that "we're not going to surrender any more ground!" would rightly get snickers from the troops who realize the incongruity between the words he spoke and the effect with which they were delivered.
Sailing- have any of your reps stated that scope recapture is a top priority?
I'm not questioning the validity of the current negotiating strategy, just pointing out that I think some are getting away with trying to pass a weak position on scope off as a strong one by hoping we pay more attention to the boldness of delivery rather than he literal meaning of words spoken.
02-28-2012, 06:05 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
If you like Space Shuttle stuff.. click here
Their padding on the seats looks more comfy than some of ours.
I'd like to see a group shot of all of the shuttles. Before they depart to their final resting places I'd like to see them together... on the ground.
02-28-2012, 06:07 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
Having this many new pilots coming on line, indefinitely, will drive our pilot block hour costs way down, and productivity will soar. Something to consider as negotiations spool up.
02-28-2012, 06:18 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,590
Actual pay costs will go down as you bring pilots in at the bottom of scale. That is however a somewhat temporary gain.
02-28-2012, 06:20 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 48
Just saw this.
Flow Through Agreements. As of now, there is no flow through agreement in place for ExpressJet pilots. The working group called Delta Connection Pilot Alliance (DCPA) consists of the ALPA Delta Connection carriers of ASA (now ExpressJet), Comair, Compass, and the new Pinnacle. This group has been looking to develop a flow through agreement with Delta and is focused on those pilots serving the Delta Connection system. Since it is easy to determine who that is in our combined pilot group, those flying the CRJ could become eligible in the event that an agreement is reached; however, there is nothing that includes the ERJ pilots at this time. These discussions are still in the infancy stage with the Delta MEC and, therefore, Delta Airlines management. I have been part of these meetings in the past, as have previous chairmen. Additionally, the XJT MEC has tasked me to form an alliance with the ALPA carriers flying in the United Express system. This group could be tasked by their respective MECs to work on a flow through agreement with the United MEC and United Airlines management. I am in the beginning stages of forming this alliance.
Flow Through Agreements. As of now, there is no flow through agreement in place for ExpressJet pilots. The working group called Delta Connection Pilot Alliance (DCPA) consists of the ALPA Delta Connection carriers of ASA (now ExpressJet), Comair, Compass, and the new Pinnacle. This group has been looking to develop a flow through agreement with Delta and is focused on those pilots serving the Delta Connection system. Since it is easy to determine who that is in our combined pilot group, those flying the CRJ could become eligible in the event that an agreement is reached; however, there is nothing that includes the ERJ pilots at this time. These discussions are still in the infancy stage with the Delta MEC and, therefore, Delta Airlines management. I have been part of these meetings in the past, as have previous chairmen. Additionally, the XJT MEC has tasked me to form an alliance with the ALPA carriers flying in the United Express system. This group could be tasked by their respective MECs to work on a flow through agreement with the United MEC and United Airlines management. I am in the beginning stages of forming this alliance.
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