Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
Hard Landing in CVG
Passenger: Landing At CVG Caused Parts Of Plane To Fall - Cincinnati News Story - WLWT Cincinnati
Oops ... glad everyone is ok.
Oops ... glad everyone is ok.
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
4. Of course we desire Compass pilots to be part of Delta and be Delta pilots. That was not the way that organization was set up and Delta management had no intention of merging the two companies. That simply leaves the question of who should represent the Compass pilots. That answer was clearly the Compass pilots and not some other pilot group. Delta ALPA had no more right to represent them than did United or Spirit. So you state that ALPA "divested" Compass. They did nothing of the sort.
5. You well know I had nothing to do with whatever Capt. McClain said in his ziplines. I know what happened at Delta. It was a very difficult fight. ALPA made a lengthy presentation about how we could affordably fly 76 seat aircraft at Delta. In the end, the leverage in bankruptcy was tilted heavily in management's favor. If you don't believe me, then ask the 6 out of 6 labor groups that all had their contracts rejected in bankruptcy. Now you make some veiled reference to having negotiator notes. If someone stole someone's personal notes, then they should have the guts to stand up and say what they are. For now, you get to make vague accusations about some misdeeds without having to show any evidence at all.
Don't be disingenuous. You were not trying to "make policy better". You were throwing bombs at people. Quit pretending like you weren't.
Don't be disingenuous. You were not trying to "make policy better". You were throwing bombs at people. Quit pretending like you weren't.
As for Delta's negotiation notes, they were subpoenaed by Counsel for the Comair and ASA pilots in their class action suit (which I refused to join). However, I did read nearly everything they posted on their web site including the depositions which reviewed these negotiators' notes. Since you seem to enjoy challenges, I'll ask again, you want me to see if I can get that atty to give us a copy?
If someone reads my post and thinks a bomb is aimed at any one individual, then they are the one with the problem. I have no clue who you are.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-24-2012 at 05:58 PM.
Interesting debate, if the personal attacks are ignored. I'm usually impressed with the intelligence of alfaromeo's posts, and feel like his "BS" calls probably are accurate in at least reining in speculative comments. I've been on the inside of decisions before, then had to listen to what SOUNDS like intelligent discussion about it later which is in fact totally uninformed and bogus... so I can empathize with his getting heated when he perceives hindsight comments to be false and discrediting. On the other hand, I'm almost 100% impressed with Bar's posts--while he may not have been present at the actual decisions, and may in fact be completely wrong about what went down and was in folks minds, at least he's intelligently thinking about it, and CLEARLY studying the issues about 1000 times more than the "average line guy". Of COURSE he's not spot-on in his after-action analysis all the time, who ever is about anything--but my gosh at least he's obviously studying and trying!
For alfa, please remember that probably 95% of the readers here don't post on these topics, many because we don't feel sufficiently informed to express a valid opinion--but we DO READ intelligently debated comments and form opinions, and your counter-point posts provide a strong grounding and anchor... and usually make me think "hmm, I like to see my ALPA guys are being calmer and more intellectually rigorous and demanding proof, I sure don't want some wild-man representing me, calm and lawyerly, good." And usually I think "Hmm, I wish Bucking Bar was on the Negotiating Committee..." also.
One totally deserved kudo though, the entire debate aside, am I the only one that thinks this was just an awesome phrase, despite being out of place here? I'm SO waiting to use this (modified) on someone! I just hope I don't succumb and try it out on my wife before I get to use it on a buddy during some heavy drinking!
Best Phrase of the Month:
"Sometimes you have a decent insight ... and sometimes you are so helplessly self indulgent that you spew out any crap that enters your head.". LOL
For alfa, please remember that probably 95% of the readers here don't post on these topics, many because we don't feel sufficiently informed to express a valid opinion--but we DO READ intelligently debated comments and form opinions, and your counter-point posts provide a strong grounding and anchor... and usually make me think "hmm, I like to see my ALPA guys are being calmer and more intellectually rigorous and demanding proof, I sure don't want some wild-man representing me, calm and lawyerly, good." And usually I think "Hmm, I wish Bucking Bar was on the Negotiating Committee..." also.
One totally deserved kudo though, the entire debate aside, am I the only one that thinks this was just an awesome phrase, despite being out of place here? I'm SO waiting to use this (modified) on someone! I just hope I don't succumb and try it out on my wife before I get to use it on a buddy during some heavy drinking!
Best Phrase of the Month:
"Sometimes you have a decent insight ... and sometimes you are so helplessly self indulgent that you spew out any crap that enters your head.". LOL
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Roadkill,
Witness testimony is notoriously flawed. The human mind tends to logically fill in the blanks. After a short period of time details are changed from reality. Also, many get caught up in the political spin machine. Just watched a show on the Concorde crash. Pilot witness statements were predictably different and you could guess where they were going the instant you heard a British, or French, accent.
Aviation Safety Investigators look for objective data.
In this debate, it is my opinion readers would be better served to look at the actual votes and objective results.
Perhaps the reason for the cognitive dissonance around here was the Comair and ASA litigation which made the Delta MEC very careful (and even a little paranoid) regarding its communications in general and scope positions in specific.
Witness testimony is notoriously flawed. The human mind tends to logically fill in the blanks. After a short period of time details are changed from reality. Also, many get caught up in the political spin machine. Just watched a show on the Concorde crash. Pilot witness statements were predictably different and you could guess where they were going the instant you heard a British, or French, accent.
Aviation Safety Investigators look for objective data.
In this debate, it is my opinion readers would be better served to look at the actual votes and objective results.
Perhaps the reason for the cognitive dissonance around here was the Comair and ASA litigation which made the Delta MEC very careful (and even a little paranoid) regarding its communications in general and scope positions in specific.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-24-2012 at 06:57 PM.
I thought this was an anonymous forum? Has Alpha ever claimed to be a senior representative of DALPA? Whoever Alpha is, he ought to have a right to express his opinion here without being outed as anything other than an anonymous poster, no? Once we go down the road of outing folks then this forum has lost it's value.
I want FPL. I just don't want to put up with the crap necessary to get FPL.
Who the hell wants to put up with a bunch of pilots anyways?
In other news, good news... death-star-surprisingly-cost-effective-weapons-system
Who the hell wants to put up with a bunch of pilots anyways?
In other news, good news... death-star-surprisingly-cost-effective-weapons-system
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
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