Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-19-2012, 06:58 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
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Apparently he didn't know how to fight or have the common sense not to try and pick up on the FO's girlfriend.
02-19-2012, 07:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
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02-19-2012, 07:04 PM
Moderator
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Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,000
I'm guessing the number is between 15-20 percent raise upfront. Most pilots I talk to seem to think that will put our 737 rates equal with Southwest's.
This board as a whole is a minority full of extremes. We are a bad sample. We are mostly young, junior, and optimistic, or old, bitter, and ****ed off.
I already said I would vote yes to a short-term contract that locks in scope with a 20 percent raise upfront if the deal would go into effect January 1, 2013. That said, I originally put 70 percent down on the survey, then went back and changed it to 99 percent. I was called on Friday night to do the phone survey, but I was at a hockey game. I got disconnected twice so I never did get to answer any questions. It's a shame because I wanted to voice my opinion. Oh well.
This board as a whole is a minority full of extremes. We are a bad sample. We are mostly young, junior, and optimistic, or old, bitter, and ****ed off.
I already said I would vote yes to a short-term contract that locks in scope with a 20 percent raise upfront if the deal would go into effect January 1, 2013. That said, I originally put 70 percent down on the survey, then went back and changed it to 99 percent. I was called on Friday night to do the phone survey, but I was at a hockey game. I got disconnected twice so I never did get to answer any questions. It's a shame because I wanted to voice my opinion. Oh well.
Whatever percent we decide to shoot for we must also consider profit sharing. I know our profit sharing does not even come close to making up for what we gave away - but it is something, and we should consider what, if any, affect it should have on our pay rates.
I remember that an argument for profit sharing went something like this: We are making a major sacrifice, if the company becomes profitable we want our share - thus profit sharing. Plus something like the fact that it would adjust with the economy to help our company be more consistently profitable - profit sharing reduces, down to zero, in lean times and increases with profitability.
Well I was originally very skeptical about profit sharing and still am to a certain extent. The $$$ amounts do not seem proportionate to our sacrifice as a pilot group. I, like most guys, was also skeptical about the companies ability to hide profits, but was told, seemingly correctly, that we had that covered.
Anyhow my point is this - we are all concerned about the bottom line, in other words, what do our W2s say at the end of each year. The company is worried about sustained profitability (and the ability to justify management bonuses, that make our profit sharing look pathetic, by the way).
So, should we consider improvements in our (DAL Pilots specifically) profit sharing as a way to increase our compensation? I Don't know the answer to this question. I personally would prefer an increase in pay-rates over improved profit sharing. I assume most guys think the same but that does not mean that we should not look at improving our profit share mechanism as one way of improving our contract.
Food for thought.
Scoop
02-19-2012, 07:05 PM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
I have heard a lower number for the survey, but since we don't know the results it is all speculation. That said, do you think the average is 30% day one, or 30% over a typical 4 year contract?
I am more concerned about scope than pay. And there are several work rules I think need to be addressed.
I am more concerned about scope than pay. And there are several work rules I think need to be addressed.
The unscientific DPA survey that was released showed 30% or better as the median. I also have a friend who discussed a similar # with one of our ALPA reps.
I'm with you on scope, too.
02-19-2012, 07:06 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,049
What are the restrictions for end of the month swaps and drops? Are we allowed to trade a spill trip in March/April for another non-spill trip during March or just drop it if reserves are available?
02-19-2012, 07:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
02-19-2012, 07:19 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
I just want to go on record that it's cold'er n crap in ATL. How do ya'all live here?
PLUS, $8.50 for Jack?? Madness!
PLUS, $8.50 for Jack?? Madness!
02-19-2012, 07:37 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 248
Oooppppps. Just saw the smiley face.
Last edited by Wingnutdal; 02-19-2012 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Lack of comprehension ability
02-19-2012, 07:43 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
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The whiskey is a lot cheaper up here.
02-19-2012, 07:46 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
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Posts: 797
Ouch, low blow!
Seriously, should I stick my head in the sand and ignore reality? SW rates would require, what, a 30-40% raise? Do you really think that is going to happen right now. AA in BK, SW saying their costs are too high, UAL, US and other airlines well below our current rates, and you think we will get a TA with a 30-40% raise?
Seriously, should I stick my head in the sand and ignore reality? SW rates would require, what, a 30-40% raise? Do you really think that is going to happen right now. AA in BK, SW saying their costs are too high, UAL, US and other airlines well below our current rates, and you think we will get a TA with a 30-40% raise?
Do you think a majority of Delta pilots will vote yes to a TA that's status quo at 5% a year? I think the secretive contract survey results will likely show an average of 30% for a yes vote. Does the company really want an unresolved labor dispute to go on for months or years? I think not. And it's been stated by many others here that contract jobs overseas may become more appealing if the propsed contract is weak. If the company can raise fares to account for billions in year over year fuel price increases, they could cover the $470M or so it would cost for a 30% pilot pay increase.
$35,000 /yr raise
x12,000 pilots 1
------------------------
$420,000,000
/800,000 flts per year 2
------------------------
$525 per flight
/ 75 1st seats sold 3
------------------
$7.00 a ticket on 1st 75 seats sold to cover the pay increase 4
- 12,000 is more than the acuatlly number that would get the raise. (driving the cost lower)
- 800,000 does not including the DCI flights. (driving the cost lower)
- Delta has 710 aircraft with an averaged seat count of 174 seats. So with 80+% load factors Delta could easly spread that cost out over even more seats. (driving the cost lower)
- Without even including DCI in ticket sales cost can be spread out further:
- $52.5 on 1st 10 seats sold,
- $10 on 1st 53 seats sold,
- $5.25 per ticket on 1st 100 seats sold,
- $4.20 on 1st 120 seats sold, the more sold the lower and lower the cost.
Delta Air Lines can afford a big pay raise, and ALPA needs to be communicating this type of info to its membership!!!
Last edited by BigGuns; 02-19-2012 at 09:07 PM.
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