Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-23-2009, 07:20 PM
#8951
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Dickson did mention just a few days ago in the chat that they were looking at other ways to get RJ lift out of the system faster than the scheduled 124 over the next few years....
This might be a piece.
My problem with DAL strategy blames both MGT and DALPA. MGT outsourced flying to RAH and ACA with GUARANTEED PROFITS. DALPA allowed it.
These profits then in turn gave the companies' the capital to purchase assets and become DIRECT COMPETITORS to DAL!!!!
This competition then forced lower ticket prices and thus decreased revenue and profits for DAL.
Lower revenue and profits lead to lower pay for employees and LESS VALUE TO SHAREHOLDERS!!!
When will we learn?
This might be a piece.
My problem with DAL strategy blames both MGT and DALPA. MGT outsourced flying to RAH and ACA with GUARANTEED PROFITS. DALPA allowed it.
These profits then in turn gave the companies' the capital to purchase assets and become DIRECT COMPETITORS to DAL!!!!
This competition then forced lower ticket prices and thus decreased revenue and profits for DAL.
Lower revenue and profits lead to lower pay for employees and LESS VALUE TO SHAREHOLDERS!!!
When will we learn?
06-23-2009, 07:22 PM
#8952
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Very true
ACL, mi amigo, sorry to disagree, but SkyWest was approached about Comair. SkyWest drives a hard bargain and it is thought the concern was guarantees of future flying. Remember Jerry walked away from the table on Delta during ASA negotiations and kept pushing until he got just the deal he wanted.
I bet there is pressure on SkyWest to do something in the near future. Don't know if anything will come of it, but I figure Comair and Mesaba have to be in play. SkyWest is the most logical buyer. I think Jerry Atkin is a much more prudent poker player than Brian Bedford. Brian's middle name is going to be "balls" after the last 24 hours.
I bet there is pressure on SkyWest to do something in the near future. Don't know if anything will come of it, but I figure Comair and Mesaba have to be in play. SkyWest is the most logical buyer. I think Jerry Atkin is a much more prudent poker player than Brian Bedford. Brian's middle name is going to be "balls" after the last 24 hours.
06-23-2009, 07:25 PM
#8953
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
This is another urban legend. Lee has never said that ever and it is 100% opposite of his feelings. I can't believe anyone would even believe this for a second. There is no way that keeping regional pay low helps Delta pilots in any fashion. People go and repeat these things as if a fact when they have never talked to Lee ever in their lives.
You know what I'd do, I'd tell people in writing what I think about scope.
He didn't waste time when it came to the Air France issue last month in his last letter on May 27th and I included it below to show you he has been willing to put down on paper his view on scope recently. I think he could easily scribble down on paper and tell everyone at Delta about how he doesn't want to see another 76 seater, that low RJ pay is not good for anyone and that he is fighting to bring small jets to mainline. There is no reason not to put it in paper because the silence is getting a bit deafening.
Lee Moak, May 27th letter:
Another important issue I would like to briefly address is last week’s corporate announcement of the new Delta Air Lines and Air France-KLM group Transatlantic Joint Venture. Premerger Northwest pilots are familiar with the benefits they received in the 12-year joint venture they had with KLM which included a strategically important European continental hub and increased flying over the North Atlantic, flying which would not have been profitable or sustainable were it not for the joint venture. Delta has been participating in a joint venture with Air France since 2007. Delta pilots have also seen benefits, one crucial benefit being access to London’s Heathrow airport. This new single joint venture represents approximately 25 percent of the total transatlantic capacity with projected annual revenues of 12 billion dollars. This summer alone, the joint venture reportedly will result in more than 200 daily transatlantic flights.
Your union has been continually briefed by Delta management on the development and implementation of the joint venture from its inception. Also, from the earliest stages of the discussions, members of the MEC administration and committee structure have been meeting with our counterparts at VNV (the union representing the KLM pilots) and Air France ALPA to ensure that the joint venture is implemented in a manner consistent with the various collective bargaining agreements. We will continue to actively engage management and our VNV/Air France ALPA counterparts to ensure that no pilot group is unfairly advantaged by the joint venture and that each can share in its potential growth and benefits. The competitive advantage that this joint venture brings is nothing short of immense. A strategic goal of the Delta MEC is that the Delta pilots work for a financially viable carrier with a long-term future. I believe this joint venture is an aggressive step in that direction.
Another important issue I would like to briefly address is last week’s corporate announcement of the new Delta Air Lines and Air France-KLM group Transatlantic Joint Venture. Premerger Northwest pilots are familiar with the benefits they received in the 12-year joint venture they had with KLM which included a strategically important European continental hub and increased flying over the North Atlantic, flying which would not have been profitable or sustainable were it not for the joint venture. Delta has been participating in a joint venture with Air France since 2007. Delta pilots have also seen benefits, one crucial benefit being access to London’s Heathrow airport. This new single joint venture represents approximately 25 percent of the total transatlantic capacity with projected annual revenues of 12 billion dollars. This summer alone, the joint venture reportedly will result in more than 200 daily transatlantic flights.
Your union has been continually briefed by Delta management on the development and implementation of the joint venture from its inception. Also, from the earliest stages of the discussions, members of the MEC administration and committee structure have been meeting with our counterparts at VNV (the union representing the KLM pilots) and Air France ALPA to ensure that the joint venture is implemented in a manner consistent with the various collective bargaining agreements. We will continue to actively engage management and our VNV/Air France ALPA counterparts to ensure that no pilot group is unfairly advantaged by the joint venture and that each can share in its potential growth and benefits. The competitive advantage that this joint venture brings is nothing short of immense. A strategic goal of the Delta MEC is that the Delta pilots work for a financially viable carrier with a long-term future. I believe this joint venture is an aggressive step in that direction.
06-23-2009, 07:33 PM
#8954
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Thanks TC. I've been an ALPA member now for 30 years. I want some of the younger guys to really start paying attention. This brand loyalty towards ALPA is just beginning to mystify me. Isn't there a point where we all take a look - and as Dr. Phil says: "How's that workin out for ya?"
Carl
Carl
I don't have any brand loyalty to anyone or anything and I think it's been working out crappy for all of us for about 8 years. But, I wonder if we as pilots would be more effective as part of a larger group. If your beef with ALPA someting that can't be cured by amending the constitution and by laws and a new (and I mean really new) leadership?
Don't get me wrong, I do not defend ALPA in it's current state to anyone. But, it does provide a framework to work with that will take years to reproduce.
This forum is a great place to have this discussion and I'm interested in hearing what you think.
My opening thought is that bigger is better, and if somehow we could really get the DAL, AMR, UAL, CAL, & US Air pilots to work together, it would be better for us all. Too "hopey, changie" for you? Maybe. But, every great cause begins with someone saying, "what if?" I think we can come up with a few of those.
New K Now
06-23-2009, 07:37 PM
#8955
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
OK, well....Now transferring Shuttle E175's to Compass makes sense. I see two obvious options:
(1) Grow Compass with a scope waiver that will be sold to the pilots as "enhanced flow down and furlough protection."
(2) Bring Compass on board with Delta. Then they are Delta's and can be operated unrestricted.
I base this on the hunches:
(1) that the Delta MEC appears to be looking the other way on the Shuttle America E175 Certified weight issue (they probably know the answer already, thus the "bring us the smoking gun before we act" position)
(2) furloughs are likely enough that both Delta and our MEC have been looking at the flow down arrangement and realizing (as I wrote a year ago) that it does not work (imagine an airline not keeping a promise of future employment
)
(3) both of these events trigger scope negotiations
(4) we know everyone has been at the table recently in scope negotiations. There is a TA on the joint codeshare with AF/KLM. Any other business discussed? Who knows?
(1) Grow Compass with a scope waiver that will be sold to the pilots as "enhanced flow down and furlough protection."
(2) Bring Compass on board with Delta. Then they are Delta's and can be operated unrestricted.
I base this on the hunches:
(1) that the Delta MEC appears to be looking the other way on the Shuttle America E175 Certified weight issue (they probably know the answer already, thus the "bring us the smoking gun before we act" position)
(2) furloughs are likely enough that both Delta and our MEC have been looking at the flow down arrangement and realizing (as I wrote a year ago) that it does not work (imagine an airline not keeping a promise of future employment
)(3) both of these events trigger scope negotiations
(4) we know everyone has been at the table recently in scope negotiations. There is a TA on the joint codeshare with AF/KLM. Any other business discussed? Who knows?
Nonetheless, I sure hope for Option 2 but in the interim feel free to post more.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 06-23-2009 at 08:20 PM.
06-23-2009, 08:23 PM
#8956
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,308
I love this attitude. I guess that is why when we merged we had to have Delta come up to the Northwest pay rates and Delta pilots were eager to have the Northwest work rules. That was how it went down right? I mean it must have been that way since Delta is so meek and Northwest is all "intense fire." Or maybe results don't matter, just rhetoric.
So yes you might get flamed because the premise of your argument is fatally flawed.
So yes you might get flamed because the premise of your argument is fatally flawed.
06-23-2009, 08:28 PM
#8957
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
This to me looks like Republic is grasping for straws because they know some big cuts are coming, whether it be DAL or UAL (CAL's already dumping them) and they are looking for alternate revenue streams. Bedford now has to integrate 3 pilot lists and establish a joint contract that will be a huge disaster in the end. XJT did the same thing when CAL pulled the Rug out on us and that turned out being bad also just like FLYI. SWA announced 6 new routes out of MKE today just after the midwest buy announcement. SWA is going for the jugular in MKE and Republic just put themselves in the crosshairs.
06-23-2009, 08:31 PM
#8958
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
06-23-2009, 08:35 PM
#8959
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
As far as swtiching to another union I am for giving DALPA a chance first but I have no problem with some discord here and there as it can be an effective way to send a political message.
There are some things I really like about DALPA and wouldn't want that to be lost. At the same time however, I've talked to a few Captains on the ER that were union reps and they complain bitterly about the backwards priorities and other problems within and how nothing will change and thats when I think how a clean slate would be good but I'd prefer a healthy change without having to rebuild from scratch.
Not that anyone at the MEC wants my advice, but one thing you see in politics is an effort to frame debates in your favor and prevent your opponents or detractors from framing it for you or framing you. The MEC should be loudly out in front of the small jet scope thing before they become the reason why pilots lost jobs as DAL contracts and pilots look out their windows and see 76 seaters taking over everywhere. The guys I talk to don't blame DAL for going to the lowest bidder but rather they blame the union for allowing it and thats just from the pilots living in Mecca. I am sure JFK, DTW and MSP pilots are probably much less happy. If the MEC feels as if they're in the right on small jet scope then they need to get out and communicate and repeat why.
There are some things I really like about DALPA and wouldn't want that to be lost. At the same time however, I've talked to a few Captains on the ER that were union reps and they complain bitterly about the backwards priorities and other problems within and how nothing will change and thats when I think how a clean slate would be good but I'd prefer a healthy change without having to rebuild from scratch.
Not that anyone at the MEC wants my advice, but one thing you see in politics is an effort to frame debates in your favor and prevent your opponents or detractors from framing it for you or framing you. The MEC should be loudly out in front of the small jet scope thing before they become the reason why pilots lost jobs as DAL contracts and pilots look out their windows and see 76 seaters taking over everywhere. The guys I talk to don't blame DAL for going to the lowest bidder but rather they blame the union for allowing it and thats just from the pilots living in Mecca. I am sure JFK, DTW and MSP pilots are probably much less happy. If the MEC feels as if they're in the right on small jet scope then they need to get out and communicate and repeat why.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 06-23-2009 at 08:46 PM.
06-23-2009, 09:51 PM
#8960
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 58
Exactly. Add to that the fact that many at NW were furloughed not once but twice in a few years time and there's always that cluster called Compass. Both were mainly the result of an all out effort by the very senior to keep their DB at all costs. No thanks. Things here have been light years better than what I've heard from friends at NW. The junior here should be the very last to complain about DALPA. The Deadzoners have a right to beef. Things haven't been pretty the last few years but I wouldn't trade what DALPA achieved with any other major that went through BK.
All of this can be fixed. Blaming senior DALPA reps will only push those guys into a corner to defend thier previous actions. Telling a junior guy he has no right to complain, when he's looking at paying for next month's groceries with food stamps, will get you no where either.
Scope and pilot unity should be number one priority. That will be the first step in "restoration." With an group of 13,000+ voices all saying the same thing, we should be able to get this job back to where it needs to be. Anything else will be a win for everybody but us!
With that said, back to crashpad fun...
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