Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
02-18-2012, 06:55 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
Scambo,
Maybe there are are DALPA guys on this board - I don't think it matters. I want to hear all opinions, especially the ones that I disagree with. Since this is an anynonomous board lets keep it that way and not make accusations or "out" people. It is much better to stick to facts and solid reasoning.
Scoop
02-18-2012, 06:59 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
02-18-2012, 07:01 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
02-18-2012, 07:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Just my Saturday morning 2 cents worth--
alfa-
You're taking this too personally. You gotta face the fact that a lot of people just don't trust ALPA. And its not just a tiny forum-dwelling minority. Its a large group. They are afraid the MEC is more worried about the company's health than they are about the members who put them in office and pay the dues. Your most recent posts only feed that perception.
Its unsettling and somewhat disorienting to see the union guys taking a bit too much pride in the corporation's success and seeming to defend management while the pilot group is still working under the bankruptcy contract. Its time to show the rank and file some results. We're hurting out here.
Whether or not to use the word "liquidation" is a pointless argument. Call it what you will, but the fact is we are seeing displacements and backwards training. Fix that before you tell us any more about how good the Delta balance sheet looks.
Carl-
We all love you man. Your cause is righteous. ALPA is a deeply flawed institution.
But time's up. You've fought well, but time's up.
The pilots have spoken. Its clear that the DPA isn't going to get the required signatures before Section 6 negotiations begin. Like it or not, we're going into this battle under the ALPA banner.
The DPA should suspend its activities and get behind the pilot group and our chosen representatives for this contract battle. You certainly don't have to endorse any individuals or the bureaucracy of ALPA. But unity is important and your support for the pilots as we go into these negotiations will send a powerful message to management and to the rank and file.
The DPA should do this thing not only for the good of the Delta pilots but also for its own credibility. If DALPA fails to deliver an acceptable TA even after you've suspended your efforts then they won't have the "donut excuse" and DPA will have clean hands to argue that they should be the ones to represent the Delta pilots going forward.
You'll have a much harder time winning support in the future if there's a perception that you've somehow sabotaged the contract efforts of DALPA.
Take the high road Carl. Join us in our confrontation with management.
Shut down the DPA for the next 12 months.
alfa-
You're taking this too personally. You gotta face the fact that a lot of people just don't trust ALPA. And its not just a tiny forum-dwelling minority. Its a large group. They are afraid the MEC is more worried about the company's health than they are about the members who put them in office and pay the dues. Your most recent posts only feed that perception.
Its unsettling and somewhat disorienting to see the union guys taking a bit too much pride in the corporation's success and seeming to defend management while the pilot group is still working under the bankruptcy contract. Its time to show the rank and file some results. We're hurting out here.
Whether or not to use the word "liquidation" is a pointless argument. Call it what you will, but the fact is we are seeing displacements and backwards training. Fix that before you tell us any more about how good the Delta balance sheet looks.
Carl-
We all love you man. Your cause is righteous. ALPA is a deeply flawed institution.
But time's up. You've fought well, but time's up.
The pilots have spoken. Its clear that the DPA isn't going to get the required signatures before Section 6 negotiations begin. Like it or not, we're going into this battle under the ALPA banner.
The DPA should suspend its activities and get behind the pilot group and our chosen representatives for this contract battle. You certainly don't have to endorse any individuals or the bureaucracy of ALPA. But unity is important and your support for the pilots as we go into these negotiations will send a powerful message to management and to the rank and file.
The DPA should do this thing not only for the good of the Delta pilots but also for its own credibility. If DALPA fails to deliver an acceptable TA even after you've suspended your efforts then they won't have the "donut excuse" and DPA will have clean hands to argue that they should be the ones to represent the Delta pilots going forward.
You'll have a much harder time winning support in the future if there's a perception that you've somehow sabotaged the contract efforts of DALPA.
Take the high road Carl. Join us in our confrontation with management.
Shut down the DPA for the next 12 months.
02-18-2012, 07:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Carl
I respect you and hope to meet you soon. Wear the hat. You don't have to like it. It'll boost your street cred. When I see guys with it and not wearing it, or without it, I pause and wonder who they think they're proving themselves to. Our employer wants us to wear it, I'll wear it. I don't have to like it.
I respect you and hope to meet you soon. Wear the hat. You don't have to like it. It'll boost your street cred. When I see guys with it and not wearing it, or without it, I pause and wonder who they think they're proving themselves to. Our employer wants us to wear it, I'll wear it. I don't have to like it.
02-18-2012, 07:18 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Just my Saturday morning 2 cents worth--
alfa-
You're taking this too personally. You gotta face the fact that a lot of people just don't trust ALPA. And its not just a tiny forum-dwelling minority. Its a large group. They are afraid the MEC is more worried about the company's health than they are about the members who put them in office and pay the dues. Your most recent posts only feed that perception.
Its unsettling and somewhat disorienting to see the union guys taking a bit too much pride in the corporation's success and seeming to defend management while the pilot group is still working under the bankruptcy contract. Its time to show the rank and file some results. We're hurting out here.
Whether or not to use the word "liquidation" is a pointless argument. Call it what you will, but the fact is we are seeing displacements and backwards training. Fix that before you tell us any more about how good the Delta balance sheet looks.
Carl-
We all love you man. Your cause is righteous. ALPA is a deeply flawed institution.
But time's up. You've fought well, but time's up.
The pilots have spoken. Its clear that the DPA isn't going to get the required signatures before Section 6 negotiations begin. Like it or not, we're going into this battle under the ALPA banner.
The DPA should suspend its activities and get behind the pilot group and our chosen representatives for this contract battle. You certainly don't have to endorse any individuals or the bureaucracy of ALPA. But unity is important and your support for the pilots as we go into these negotiations will send a powerful message to management and to the rank and file.
The DPA should do this thing not only for the good of the Delta pilots but also for its own credibility. If DALPA fails to deliver an acceptable TA even after you've suspended your efforts then they won't have the "donut excuse" and DPA will have clean hands to argue that they should be the ones to represent the Delta pilots going forward.
You'll have a much harder time winning support in the future if there's a perception that you've somehow sabotaged the contract efforts of DALPA.
Take the high road Carl. Join us in our confrontation with management.
Shut down the DPA for the next 12 months.
alfa-
You're taking this too personally. You gotta face the fact that a lot of people just don't trust ALPA. And its not just a tiny forum-dwelling minority. Its a large group. They are afraid the MEC is more worried about the company's health than they are about the members who put them in office and pay the dues. Your most recent posts only feed that perception.
Its unsettling and somewhat disorienting to see the union guys taking a bit too much pride in the corporation's success and seeming to defend management while the pilot group is still working under the bankruptcy contract. Its time to show the rank and file some results. We're hurting out here.
Whether or not to use the word "liquidation" is a pointless argument. Call it what you will, but the fact is we are seeing displacements and backwards training. Fix that before you tell us any more about how good the Delta balance sheet looks.
Carl-
We all love you man. Your cause is righteous. ALPA is a deeply flawed institution.
But time's up. You've fought well, but time's up.
The pilots have spoken. Its clear that the DPA isn't going to get the required signatures before Section 6 negotiations begin. Like it or not, we're going into this battle under the ALPA banner.
The DPA should suspend its activities and get behind the pilot group and our chosen representatives for this contract battle. You certainly don't have to endorse any individuals or the bureaucracy of ALPA. But unity is important and your support for the pilots as we go into these negotiations will send a powerful message to management and to the rank and file.
The DPA should do this thing not only for the good of the Delta pilots but also for its own credibility. If DALPA fails to deliver an acceptable TA even after you've suspended your efforts then they won't have the "donut excuse" and DPA will have clean hands to argue that they should be the ones to represent the Delta pilots going forward.
You'll have a much harder time winning support in the future if there's a perception that you've somehow sabotaged the contract efforts of DALPA.
Take the high road Carl. Join us in our confrontation with management.
Shut down the DPA for the next 12 months.
One of the best posts I've ever seen on here.
2 thumbs up,
02-18-2012, 07:20 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: DL 7ER F/O
Posts: 249
Check,
Your 2 cents are worth 10 bucks, agree completely with what you said and hope we can come together for the next contract, as it will be one of the most important of our careers!!
Your 2 cents are worth 10 bucks, agree completely with what you said and hope we can come together for the next contract, as it will be one of the most important of our careers!!
02-18-2012, 07:38 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl-
We all love you man. Your cause is righteous. ALPA is a deeply flawed institution.
But time's up. You've fought well, but time's up.
The pilots have spoken. Its clear that the DPA isn't going to get the required signatures before Section 6 negotiations begin. Like it or not, we're going into this battle under the ALPA banner.
With regard to getting behind the pilot group and the reps, that has always been the case. This effort has not been a mutually exclusive proposition. You can offer a process for change while being behind the current representation. In my case, I do it because there's no other option...not because I believe in this morally bankrupt, self-interested institution that currently represents us.
The DPA should do this thing not only for the good of the Delta pilots but also for its own credibility. If DALPA fails to deliver an acceptable TA even after you've suspended your efforts then they won't have the "donut excuse" and DPA will have clean hands to argue that they should be the ones to represent the Delta pilots going forward.
Since I'm just a line guy, that's not my call. But I hope they don't do that. You can keep the website up and have DALPA feel a metaphorical gun to their heads while they are negotiating with management. In my view, this is the support we must give to DALPA...because they need to constantly be reminded to get off of management's lap and back on the OTHER side of the negotiating table. Further, I want management to know what extreme pressure DALPA is under to NOT cave in. That's the kind of unity of purpose management needs to understand.
Carl
02-18-2012, 07:42 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
02-18-2012, 07:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: SEA7ERB
Posts: 177
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