Timbo

Earlier today my wife made the observation; "Hey, if we could just get that extra 4.85% every month, it would be like your OLD paychecks!" And I had to remeind her, Yeah but, I was a domestic 757 driver back then, not a 777 Capt...

I don't know about you guys, but getting such a small piece of our pie (4.85%) back, once a year, when we gave up 42%, plus our DB money, just ****es me off, more than makes me want to celebrate.

Kind of a painful reminder of exactly how much we gave away.

Sure it's better than getting zilch, no doubt, but still...it would be nice to have that little 'extra' every month.

I'm sure Ed won't be getting any sleep tonight though...

Sink r8

I don't want to go to a system as with small awards as frequent as the APE*, but I would like a system the company can't game quite so much, by either removing AE's, or cancelling MD's, or selectively backfilling some categories, but not others. I think the APE couldn't be played that way.

* I don't want to encourage seasonal bidding, and above all, I absolutely don't want to see Block/Reserve. But that's just me.

NuGuy

Heyas Clamp,

Actually, the NWA APA system had very little "churn" at the bottom of each category, despite the fact that there were monthly awards. This seems to be the principal worry that fDAL guys have about the APA system.

The excess at the bottom of each category was mitigated by the Temporary Position system, which was extremely popular with commuters, and so almost always went quite senior. Lots of people benefit when senior guys bid temp positions. The senior guys get free travel & hotels to work, the mid guys in the permanent category move up, and the bottom guys stay in their position.

People forget that displacements cost the company money no matter how it's done, all at once, or a trickle over some months. The Temp system mitigated that by letting people even out the slight surpluses between bases.

Some people like the AE process because they say it lets people hang on to the bottom of a category longer than they normally would. But it also traps those same people, for months on end, where they might be happier in another, more junior category or a different base.

The monthly awards process smoothed the bumps, made it very easy to see the ebb and flow, and there were very few surprises.

Of course, sharpshooting the system, knowing exactly when you were going to training, and when you'd be in your position were nice parts of the system, as well.


The block/reserve separate category thing is a different matter. That system mostly benefited commuters, in that if you got the boot off the bottom of one category, you could just displaced into another blockholder position, and not worry about commuting to reserve. Honestly, I think we can do without it, BUT, you could emulate the benefit by setting up some kind of ultra long call reserve system that takes some of the sting out.

Nu

buzzpat

Mine looks a little short also based on my 2011 W2. I'll have to check when I get home.

Sink r8

If you want to a add a little lime on your paper cut, think about how the money is distributed. Proportional to W-2's sounds eminently fair, right?

But what about the proportion of concessions?

If you think about it, we gave more than proportionately to income, so we're actually funding everyone else's profit-sharing, a little.

Then there are the Shared Rewards for performance, in which the lobsided proportion of concessions remains the same BUT the rewards are distributed on a per-capita basis. Even to the guy that left you hanging mid-push for a shift change.

A slap in the face, on top of the lime, on top of the paper cut. Are cigarette burns on our a$$es next?

Sink r8

Can you expand on that a little? Were these seasonal positions, where the company needed bodies for only a while?

Jesse

If you figure out why let me know. Mine wasn't 4.85%...more around 4.5%

slowplay

Add up your flight pay and flight advance. It should be 4.85% of that. Your W-2 includes things like last year's profit sharing and shared rewards on which profit sharing isn't paid.

nwaf16dude

I'll jump in... first off, it was a volunteer only thing. You couldn't get a temp position unless you bid for it. It was done one month at a time. A lot of commuters would leave a standing temp bid every month, because you got positive space travel from home to whatever base you were temped to, and any hotels you needed as well. Temp guys bid for trips after all the in base block-holders.

I did temp reserve several times in other bases and it was nice because I'd get positive space to the base, and a nice hotel to sit in while I waited for a trip assignment. I also got per diem from when I let home until I got back, whether I got a trip or not.

NuGuy

Heyas Sink,

The Temporary Position system worked on a monthly basis in conjunction with the Permanent Bid system. Each temp bid was good for one bid period.

To give you an idea of the time line:

Permanent Bids closed on the 5th of each month, and were awarded on the 20th. They were effective 3.5 months from the award...an award on January 20th was effective May 1st. That was the day you were FLYING your new position...all trained up and ready to go.

Temporary Bids, on the other hand, closed on the 25th of each month, effective for the bid period after next. That is, you put in a temp bid by January 25th for the March bid month, and the result would be published on the bid list that came out prior to monthly bidding March...around the 5th of February.

Looking one month ahead, the company figured out where the excesses were. You would only be awarded a temp bid if you were in a category of excess...meaning if you left for a month, they didn't need to replace you.

If you were awarded a temp bid (say you were a DTW 320 guy, and got a MSP 320 temp bid)...when you did your monthly bid, you bid in MSP, but AFTER all of the Permanent position holders (to keep it fair for the guys who were in MSP permanently).

While on a temp bid, you got positive space from home, to work, and paid hotels in the temp city. There was also a little bit of extra per diem thrown in.

You could temp from base to base, or from reserve to block (or vice versa). Some months there were no temp bids....sometimes there were quite a few.

Everyone liked it...I never once heard anyone complain about the system, and like using only seniority list instructors in the sim, it was one of the last "good deals".

Nu