Originally Posted by flyallnite

I still shake my head in disbelief that we still fly to day after retiring the type (glad we do, and the 747 that we supposedly would never see in DL colors) So when you say we've lost thousands of jobs to the RJ, I'd have to disagree. It might be more accurate to say we failed to gain those jobs, but at the time, the membership didn't want them. (I recall saying to our current MEC chairman back when he was a SO rep that the RJ was something we should look at limiting or merging into our list, but at the time, most of the membership was former military, and didn't see the forest for the trees). That base is now nearly closed after the nuclear RJ blast that eventually consumed itself.

Originally Posted by TenYearsGone

Heard we are getting a handful more.

TEN

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Very interesting perspective.

Do you think their perspective has changed any? Was dumping Compass just more of the same?

Originally Posted by flyallnite

It's interesting you pick this airplane, the DC-9-10. As the launch customer for the type, DL put this airplane into service mainly to replace the DC-6's and CV440's as hub feed from ATL, and on some of the old CAB routes, such as ORD-EVV-MEM-ATL. DL at the time was basically a regional airline, with regulated fares and routes. This particular aircraft was configured for 2 class operation in a 62 seat layout. Delta operated only a small fleet of DC-9-10 variants, and if you look at the history of the Delta fleet, we've not been in the less than 75 seat market since the mid 70's. Going back to 1980, the smallest mainline aircraft at Delta was the DC-9-32, which I still shake my head in disbelief that we still fly to day after retiring the type (glad we do, and the 747 that we supposedly would never see in DL colors) So when you say we've lost thousands of jobs to the RJ, I'd have to disagree. It might be more accurate to say we failed to gain those jobs, but at the time, the membership didn't want them. (I recall saying to our current MEC chairman back when he was a SO rep that the RJ was something we should look at limiting or merging into our list, but at the time, most of the membership was former military, and didn't see the forest for the trees). That base is now nearly closed after the nuclear RJ blast that eventually consumed itself.

In today's world, this Delta of old wouldn't last a week. Competition from SWA, JBLU, deregulated fares, and hub frequencies from our competitors would make hash out of us. That's not to say that DL pilots couldn't or shouldn't be flying smaller airplanes into some of the cities that currently are D-con only right now. But frankly, you'd have a hard time convincing the membership as a whole that we need to recapture all 50 seat and up flying at any cost, flying that we've not had since the prop days.

The AS and HI codeshare are a completely different animal, and I agree that we have lost entirely too much at the hands of this deal, all in the name of higher revenue per seat. Many on here have realized that there are city pairs that we used to fly, and connection pairs that we are losing pax to. This is untenable and needs to be dealt with, because the future will only see more of it. How it's dealt with, though, remains up to the membership and again, will we be satisfied with the bargain?

My concern these days (although I still remain optimistic) is that any merger scenario going forward will primarily be driven by a capacity reduction prior to and following the deal, resulting in a much higher revenue environment but fewer overall jobs. We are at the tipping point now. If we bought LCC, for example, can you imagine that we would keep a CLT hub? SLC would surely fold into PHX at some point. And we'd be handing over slots at LGA and DCA to SWA and JBLU. Many of LCC's international flights would fold into the ATL and JFK operation and we'd probably see some airplanes sent back to the lessors.

AA would gain us some important markets, but we'd likely have to surrender a lot of the network to other parties, and no doubt the whole process would be centered on downsizing. So the concern of a merger and the integration process is definitely something I'm keeping in mind these days, and that is probably our biggest threat going forward, not so much the 70 seat flying.

If we do someday merge with AK, you can bet there will be bad blood over the integration, no matter how that works out, it's just too different overall to be mashed into one big happy family, like we are now, right?

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

FlightAware > Boeing Commercial Airplane Group #236 > 09-Feb-2012 > KBFI-KBFI Flight Tracker

They are still in the air! Drew "787" and the Boeing symbol for the last 19 hours. Wow.

Originally Posted by TenYearsGone

Heard we are getting a handful more.

TEN

Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg

..Spirit Airlines Adds New Service from DFW International Airport to Atlanta, Orlando and New York LaGuardia

Press Release: DFW International Airport – 7 hours ago
....
Ultra-low cost carrier growing again in its first year at DFW, announcing further expansion plans

DFW AIRPORT, Texas, Feb. 9, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Spirit Airlines today launched service to three new destinations from DFW International Airport, with flights to Atlanta Hartsfield Jackson International Airport (ATL), Orlando International Airport (MCO) and New York's LaGuardia Airport (LGA). The three inaugural flights today mark the first wave of a large planned expansion of offerings at DFW by Spirit Airlines.

Spirit not only doubled its DFW destinations today, the ultra low-cost carrier also announced it would launch service from DFW to Tampa International Airport (TPA) and Myrtle Beach (MYR) starting in early May, and that it has applied for government approval to connect DFW with Toluca, Mexico (TLC). Previously, Spirit had announced new service from DFW to Boston (BOS) and Phoenix-Mesa (AZA), which is scheduled to start in March.

"We welcome the addition of new Spirit Airlines service from DFW to Atlanta, Orlando and New York City, and we are pleased to see even more flights coming later this spring." said Jeff Fegan, CEO of DFW International Airport. "Spirit's tremendous expansion at our Airport means that DFW passengers will benefit from having more travel options and more choices to fly."

The first arrival from Atlanta into DFW was greeted with a traditional "shower of affection" water cannon salute from the DFW Department of Public Safety.

Spirit Airlines arrived at DFW less than a year ago with service to Fort Lauderdale and to Las Vegas, and then added Chicago Midway service soon thereafter.

"We are excited to be liberating even more customers from high fares as we continue to grow the number of cities we serve from Dallas/Fort Worth," said Spirit's Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer Barry Biffle. "Our cheap base fares give consumers the opportunity to save money on travel, and our range of optional services for a fee allows customers the freedom to choose only the extras they value."

The added service from Spirit represents further proof of the Airport's ongoing momentum in developing new air service for the citizens of Dallas/Fort Worth. In the past 16 months, DFW has added six new passenger carriers, nine new international destinations and over 20 passenger air routes.






It will be good for DFW commuters. 2 jumpseats on each airbus---ATL--DFW.

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

In the Navy, my father flew the PBY, PBM, and Martin Mars among many other models. (He was a test pilot at PAX River in the 1950's.) He just turned 86 on Feb. 6th. I believe some of the Mars are still flying as firefighters up on Vancouver Island.

Denny

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

You guys have convinced me. The DL/NW merger screwed us all. I mean let's look at the two major carriers that missed out on this last round of consolidation: AMR and LCC. They are just burning it up, their pilots are getting massive raises, their airlines are growing like mad, they are getting huge profit sharing checks and their futures are super bright. Man I wish we were just like them.