gloopy

If those 500 positions are phased away and/or outsourced for "capacity discipline" or whatnot. If the company got rid of everything except one MD88 and they only needed 2 pilots total, you could be number two on the list and it wouldn't really matter much.

buzzpat

Hey George,

I'm all for seniority progression and I know that about 85% of us thought we'd be progressing much faster than we have. I certainly never anticipated leaving the career I had in the Air Force and 20 years of flying heavies internationally for being a narrow body FO for the rest of my life.

I think the only point I'm making is that career expectations are exactly that...expectations. Nobody could have anticipated the effects that 9/11 had on this industry prior to that day, nor the RJ explosion that helped many get the experience they needed to reach the majors only to now understand the detrimental affects that industry philosophy has had, nor the economic down turns of the last 4 years.

It's not the older guys fault that they lost their pensions and now have to work until they're 65 or 70. I can guarantee that almost all of those guys would be long gone if they could afford to.

No, what we're looking at is the reality that this career ain't the salad days of Pan Am or TWA. Thats gone.

I also returned to my v-file and had my 1-year and 5-year pins waiting for me. I wasn't humbled. I was ****ed. I really hadn't done anything to earn them. I'm making up for that now. And I want my company to reward me for my loyalty, hard work, and safe and skillful flying. That's all.

Jesse

Complete opposite of what I witnessed in the same situation.

gloopy

Uh oh. Somewhere on the fourth floor someone just said:

Barney - Challenge Accepted - YouTube

Free Bird

Excellent post Buzz, very insightful imo. I'm also a member of the get 2 pins at a time club. It's a club that I hope more Delta pilots will not be joining anytime soon. I do believe that better times are in our future.

Jesse

The point those of us who are saying the buckets need to be adjusted to something less than the current values isn't that we aren't getting what we expected in this career. While not to your level, we have experienced that as well. We've gotten a merger, we've had the great recession, we've got high oil prices, etc., etc., and we're the bottom of the bottom. No, what makes this different is that it's our own representation twisting the knife. This is like bread and circuses. How about working to get back to everything that was given up, and not just seniority reserve? I say put your energy and determination to getting restoration back. But you won't even hear that said. But throw some junior reserves under the bus? Can do easy.

80ktsClamp

The many faces and emotions of Eli Manning:

The Many Faces and Emotions of Eli Manning - SportsPickle Opinion

georgetg

That's exactly what I'm talking about.
There are debts to be repaid...some of them financial.

I'd like to see all Delta pilots move up, and those who'd like to retire filled up and taken care of so they feel they can. I filled out my contract survey accordingly.

The disconnect now is that despite external threats Delta is wildly successful.
2 consecutive years of Billion dollar profits means the corporate side's needs have been met and exceeded. Seniority progression is the only real long-term payback because everything else hinges on that number...

As for me, I'm a post 9/11, post bird-flue, post housing crisis hire. My expectations weren't really very high at all. And while I'm supposed to be "happy to have a job" I'm one of those malcontents that thinks that when the company is making money on an insane level, the pilots ought to benefit by having career progression. I'm happy there are smart guys running the show and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. On the other hand I'm also not under the delusion that somehow it will all payoff in the future. That old adage has been proven to be quaint old concept. The here and now is all that matters exactly because of the experience of the last 10 years...There is no payback, no deferred compensation. Chances are there won't be a seniority bubble because the retirement age will just go up again to unlimited as it just did in Canada. That's just the reality. Anybody who thinks somehow there will be deferred improvements is kidding themselves.

Reality check: we aren't holding any IOUs, not for pay, not for seniority, not for hiring, not for production balance and that's just how it is.

Cheers
George

newKnow

Nevermind. Elvis is too fast for me.

newKnow

Awh. You beat me to it. The next Jeopardy question is mine, all mine.