nwaf16dude

Anyone that is appalled or surprised by a low-ball opener from management is either naive or stupid. It won't lower my expectations.

buzzpat

Deleted due to confidential info in quote.

DAL 88 Driver

Well I guess you told me what's what!

Spare me the righteous indignation and condescension. I don't have time to read every post on this thread every day. Sometimes I have to skip ahead.

I asked clamp a simple question about a statement he made. Seems I struck a nerve with you. You're going to have to brush up on your savoir-faire if you want to keep climbing these political ladders. Good luck with whatever it is you're trying to do these days.

sailingfun

I always find it curious why people have to resort to insults and name calling. I love the boot licking comment. The good news is that most understand the mettle of those who resort to such comments. I am on record here many times stating what I consider a reasonable contract. It exceeds what SW has. I am also a realist and what I have posted has over and over again been far more correct then many others. I as a example caught lots of heat for saying Delta management would never buy a 100 seat aircraft over the last 4 years.
I will also point out that I have made my feelings known to management behind signed letters. I did not lack the courage to only make comments on forums hiding my identity from management. Because of that I have had to have personal conversations with both the VP of flight ops and the CEO of Delta airlines to counsel me on my attitude. I doubt many on the forum can make that claim. I put my job on the line with the CEO in defense of the pilots furloughed by management for political reasons.
I did not post what I believe managements opener will be to further any DALPA goal. I posted it because it reflects the reality of how Delta management feels and thinks. If anyone on this forum thinks otherwise they have had their head in the sand and not read any of management comments over the last few years.
If we are going to get anywhere close to SW wages and retain the aspects of our contract that are better then SW it will come only as a long struggle. A struggle that will require a united pilot group. It is a struggle that will be won or lost behind the scenes in DC via political means. I can only conclude that those who at this stage support DPA would prefer to see DALPA fail and of course the pilots lose income and quality rather then work as a unified group to get the very best contract possible. DPA leadership itself when they started their effort fully recognized the danger this posed and gave themselves a hard deadline to end the process to insure a unified group. Sadly they abandoned what was a correct and smart initial choice for what we have today. Management is toasting them every night on the 4th floor.
I want the very best contract I can get for my family. Some think that only requires demanding the most up front. Those who feel that way sadly have not studied the history of contracts under the railway labor act. They would be wise to do so.

DAL 88 Driver

Not by itself... no. But sailingfun has dedicated a huge amount of his posts trying to minimize the numbers we would need for restoration or parity with SWA, etc. If I didn't actually know who he is in real life, I would swear it's RA himself posting on here. Like I said, hopefully it's not working. But when a person continually throws out slanted/partial info that would lead one to think we're doing pretty well already and that we don't need all that much going forward, he is appearing to attempt to manage expectations. Some might read that and think, "well, this guy sounds like he knows what he's talking about" and then, voila, you have lowered expectations. Like you said, most of our pilots are more savvy than that. But there are also those who in the past have appeared to let DALPA think for them. I remember the bag stickers from a while back that said, "My union speaks for me." It's that mentality that is disturbing in light of our situation today.

I propose a new bag sticker now (although it probably wouldn't do much good since we don't have flight bags anymore): "My unions squeaks for me." That sounds more like it, unfortunately!

Bill Lumberg

No, they were jumpseating to first class resorts for "meetings" while the rest of us get to go to dumps like the new MCO short layover.

Herkflyr

Yah right....our MEC reps spend all their time wearing togas, having Roman slave girls popping grapes into their mouths whilst slave boys wave giant roc feathers over their heads.

YOU, on the other hand, between slave assignments pulling oars on a slaver galley and being tortured on the rack by management (with MEC cooperation), have all the answers--none specific mind you, but something along the lines of "ALPA sucks, blah blah blah"

Jesse

Sounds like a CP...not in my crew lounge!

Bucking Bar

Can someone explain why this argument about openers is interesting?

Nothing has happened. Isn't this like arguing about what color antlers look good on a Unicorn? I mean, it doesn't exist, at least not yet.

Can we wait until there is news, to fight about the news?

Bacon ... More Bacon ... looking forward to your Friday night post.

Bill Lumberg

Significant pay gains--at least 20% the first year, work rule changes like min day EVERY day on the trip (5:15 min), better reserve rules (min pay 75 hours for reserve, maybe more like 78 for short call only, etc), tightening of SCOPE (JVs, RJs), and adding to the DC fund, better sick leave, etc. You know the deal, yet you want me to spell it out for you. The key here is that 4000+ have signed the card already to be a donut, and ALPA gets 6500 or so to do the Contract survey. They don't know if any of those 6500 or so are donut wannabees, so they have to be careful because if only another 2500 or so are needed to force a vote and maybe ALPA could lose $35 million a year in dues, it could be catastrophic for the union itself, so they had better try to make everyone happy. This is turning out to be wonderful, because not only is the company finally profitable now, but ALPA gets a friendly bump from the donuts, who could take away a lot of DOUGH from their coffers if they don't get this right. And we also know the company likes DALPA, so they get to feel some heat too. It's all good. SHOW US A GREAT CONTRACT DALPA OR MOVE OVER.

A weak offer lacks the above, or significant gains in all areas. We are still on a BK contract, and that needs to change NOW, not in the next 2 contracts. We had leverage during the joint contract, yet we left a lot on the table. Wall Street wanted to see everyone get along, and we did, but still didin't get many gains. We were "promised" by ALPA that the $2 billion in synergies would be used to get us a better contract someday, but the company has been using that to pay off debt instead. That is great, but it's time for us to get a large portion of that. No managing of my expectations. Every great quarter with great headlines means we should be closer to restoring a lot of our old contract. It's the cost of doing business, and ALPA needs to push for all of it.


Good enough? Why don't you answer this question: What type of gains do you expect to see? (in all areas) No half answers, please.