Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-12-2012, 06:33 PM
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01-12-2012, 06:38 PM
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Can't say that makes much sense to me. I'm not even a line holder. I don't even live in base! But for 2 hrs a day for SC I'd be volunteering to commute in for SC. I think there a bigger fights to fight; fights that would have support from more of the pilot group. This, I'm afraid doesn't pass muster in the regard. I do like the RAW score credit for SC, though.
I think if you polled all the DAL pilots that commute to reserve, the majority would support some version of what I presented. JMHO
If nothing less, 70 hrs pay for reservists needs to be fixed.
01-12-2012, 06:38 PM
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How is the average line pilot getting 85 hours of pay a month with our rules. ALVs in the 70s, not a whole lot of open time, working 15+ days a month just to hit ALV (at least with the trips out west). Now if we had SWA rules with 6.0 hours min credit/DAY (means only 12 days of work for 72 hours) I could certainly see earning a lot more. Not to mention how do you make up for only 3:15/day of vacation/training. When I was hired I was told you could figure your pay by multiplying your pay rate by 1000 (in other words 1000 credit hours/year). BUT, that was back in the line of time days, trips touching for vacation (one week of vacation could turn in to three weeks off and could then pick up even more money if you wanted by picking up some more trips). Would love to know where the average line pilot is getting 85 hours (certainly not in the LAX base).
Ask him what set of data that they use, and if any of the data is removed...specifically, if any lines below a certain value are excluded from the average.
If you eliminate all of the lines that are less than, say, 70 hours, you'd be surprised how the average changes, especially when a LOT of lines that PBS generates are less than 70.
Nu
01-12-2012, 06:45 PM
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Oh, hell yes, I'd support it...I'd love the money. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to me that reserves should be paid 2 hrs more for doing their job (while line holders nod in agreement?); and the reason for doing it is to help commuters out? My point is it doesn't achieve that because you'd have guys commuting for an extra 12 hours a month. Maybe you've just suckered me in to this argument that is actually intended as flame bait for someone like Pineapple Guy.
01-12-2012, 06:46 PM
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Capn,
The number that I have seen is 87 hours and I believe it. Remember this is an average for total compensation and is skewed high by green-slips, white-slips, assignments and now you would also have to include profit sharing too. My profit sharing for 2010, paid last February amounted to a 5.6 hours/month increase.
Do not confuse the 87 hours average compensation with the guarantee - they are related, but not the same number.
As I said, I think the 87 hour month is probably accurate.
87 X 12 = 1044. I was always told that our average pay comes out to 1000 hours a year and this is pretty close.
Keep in mind that most junior guys on reserve will be no where near the 87 hour average, but for every reserve guy at 70 hours there is probably a few senior guys getting in the 90+ range. And also remember, there are a lot more line-holders than reserves.
And don't forget the training department - as small a percentage as they are, they probably skew the average up 1-2 hours/month by themselves.
Scoop
The number that I have seen is 87 hours and I believe it. Remember this is an average for total compensation and is skewed high by green-slips, white-slips, assignments and now you would also have to include profit sharing too. My profit sharing for 2010, paid last February amounted to a 5.6 hours/month increase.
Do not confuse the 87 hours average compensation with the guarantee - they are related, but not the same number.
As I said, I think the 87 hour month is probably accurate.
87 X 12 = 1044. I was always told that our average pay comes out to 1000 hours a year and this is pretty close.
Keep in mind that most junior guys on reserve will be no where near the 87 hour average, but for every reserve guy at 70 hours there is probably a few senior guys getting in the 90+ range. And also remember, there are a lot more line-holders than reserves.
And don't forget the training department - as small a percentage as they are, they probably skew the average up 1-2 hours/month by themselves.
Scoop
Water down their number with the 20-30% of us that make 70 hrs a month plus the line guys on reduced ALV in the winter, it just does not add up.
Sorry but from where I'm sitting there is no way that 87 holds water, bonus, etc included. Total horse manure.
01-12-2012, 06:50 PM
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I don't really see the extra pay as a way to support commuting more than supporting crew scheduling do their job. Guys will be chomping at the bit to do SC. Helping commuters is an ancillary benefit to said work.
01-12-2012, 07:04 PM
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That is funny!!! It's not flame but it will certainly get PG in a hot temper.
I don't really see the extra pay as a way to support commuting more than supporting crew scheduling do their job. Guys will be chomping at the bit to do SC. Helping commuters is an ancillary benefit to said work.
I don't really see the extra pay as a way to support commuting more than supporting crew scheduling do their job. Guys will be chomping at the bit to do SC. Helping commuters is an ancillary benefit to said work.
Just sayin...
01-12-2012, 07:24 PM
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as one of those forced to commute guys, id say it would be nice to have pure sc lines and pure lc lines. Sc would pay a 5 hour premium over lc. It would allow commuters a better qol in most cases. If you live 5 minutes from the airport you get more money doing sc allow guys like me to stay and not worry about having a couple of brews at dinner.....
Just sayin...
Just sayin...
01-12-2012, 07:28 PM
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Call the MEC Treasurer. Ask him how they compute the average.
Ask him what set of data that they use, and if any of the data is removed...specifically, if any lines below a certain value are excluded from the average.
If you eliminate all of the lines that are less than, say, 70 hours, you'd be surprised how the average changes, especially when a LOT of lines that PBS generates are less than 70.
Nu
Ask him what set of data that they use, and if any of the data is removed...specifically, if any lines below a certain value are excluded from the average.
If you eliminate all of the lines that are less than, say, 70 hours, you'd be surprised how the average changes, especially when a LOT of lines that PBS generates are less than 70.
Nu
So, the BS flag was raised and Alfa claimed that those who question this notion that 87 hours is indeed the average pay per month did not have the facts. Ok. Let's look at the facts.
NuGuy asked this in post 7155:
Is it, or is it not, true that schedules less than 70 hours are deleted when considering what is "average" when computing the number to pay FPL people? That would go a LONG way in explaining why everyone I know is getting 68 hour lines from PBS, yet the "average" pay for FPL purposes is 87 hours.
If true, the real way to make a dent in the FPL pay is to change the policy manual to take into consideration all lines down to 60 hours, versus 70.
Nu
Well, here we have it. Straight from section 10.C.3
3. The MEC treasurer will periodically (but at least annually) determine the average
pay hours for regular line holders (computed average), which shall be approved
by the DAL MEC. This average will be used to determine the computed average
rate for full-time and part-time compensation. At every regularly scheduled MEC
meeting, the MEC treasurer will provide the MEC with the computed average rate
and the methodology used to determine the computed average ratepay hours for regular line holders (computed average), which shall be approved
by the DAL MEC. This average will be used to determine the computed average
rate for full-time and part-time compensation. At every regularly scheduled MEC
meeting, the MEC treasurer will provide the MEC with the computed average rate
So, the MEC treasurer determines the "computed average."
What methodology is used by the treasurer to come to the "computed average?" What is the definition of "regular line holder?" Does this exclude those on reserve? In training? Only regular line holders in a short staffed category? Only regular line holders in only the months of June, July and August?
How can the line pilot, or rather DALPA's customers see how this determination and methodology was made by the treasurer? I see that it is made available to the MEC. How about making it available for all pilots to see anytime it is changed.
Point is, the process couldn't be any more opaque or be definition easier to manipulte to get and support any given number.
Last edited by TheManager; 01-12-2012 at 07:39 PM.
01-12-2012, 07:52 PM
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