Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-12-2012, 08:07 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
My thoughts are that Bar was annoyed that the Super-Mod yelled at him, for being against the TOS, but he wasn't. He was just complaining about the moderation of the site. Apparently, criticizing the management around here was verboten - but not in the TOS - Of course, it's their website, but if the mod start giving violations to people because they are complaining about stuff - people will eventually leave.
The political comments draw a lot of ire - sure, talking about the President, Congress and the upcoming election can grow heated and are unlikely change people's opinion, that's why the TOS says we can't do that.
As for nudity or near nudity, do people really know what PG-13 means? It is not what a Disney movie shows- that's "G". PG-13 mean all sorts of things, but here's what the MPAA website says about it:
A PG-13 motion picture may go beyond the PG rating in theme, violence, nudity, sensuality, language, adult activities or other elements, but does not reach the restricted R category. More than brief nudity will require at least a PG-13 rating, but such nudity in a PG-13 rated motion picture generally will not be sexually oriented.
So - did people know that a PG-13 movie could have nudity? Well, it can. So if the TOS says, "PG-13" images, a picture of a topless women sunbathing on a beach would be appropriate. But the TOS says No nudity, so that's the more restrictive (it's like a MEL!
) so we follow that. Sure, it's a slippery slope, how much of the breast is exposed, etc etc. That's why we have mods to make those decisions. I have been happy with the work of FTB, AC and Johnso, they have been making good decisions.
But, when some Super-Mod who doesn't come by often stops by, maybe he's a little surprised by what he sees. I'm sure the 2 page thread on jumpseating to Europe in the cargo thread doesn't have the discussion and comradrie that this thread has - nor the pictures and jokes. Because of the width and breadth of this thread, it's going to ebb and flow. During the slow times between AEs, aircraft orders and contract stuff, other topics come up. We do a good job keeping things in bounds, but our mods (FTB/ACL/Johnso) poke us occasionally and say "hey guy, cut it out" and we all go back to being responsible posters.
I just hope that everyone can realize that this thread has a life of it's own - they might cut us a little slack and not shut it down if we stray a little bit. We should police ourselves and realize we don't see need to see tons of images of nearly naked women. If you can't find naked women on the internet yourself, first we need to revoke your Man card and second check you if you're a pilot.
The political comments draw a lot of ire - sure, talking about the President, Congress and the upcoming election can grow heated and are unlikely change people's opinion, that's why the TOS says we can't do that.
As for nudity or near nudity, do people really know what PG-13 means? It is not what a Disney movie shows- that's "G". PG-13 mean all sorts of things, but here's what the MPAA website says about it:
A PG-13 motion picture may go beyond the PG rating in theme, violence, nudity, sensuality, language, adult activities or other elements, but does not reach the restricted R category. More than brief nudity will require at least a PG-13 rating, but such nudity in a PG-13 rated motion picture generally will not be sexually oriented.
So - did people know that a PG-13 movie could have nudity? Well, it can. So if the TOS says, "PG-13" images, a picture of a topless women sunbathing on a beach would be appropriate. But the TOS says No nudity, so that's the more restrictive (it's like a MEL!
) so we follow that. Sure, it's a slippery slope, how much of the breast is exposed, etc etc. That's why we have mods to make those decisions. I have been happy with the work of FTB, AC and Johnso, they have been making good decisions.But, when some Super-Mod who doesn't come by often stops by, maybe he's a little surprised by what he sees. I'm sure the 2 page thread on jumpseating to Europe in the cargo thread doesn't have the discussion and comradrie that this thread has - nor the pictures and jokes. Because of the width and breadth of this thread, it's going to ebb and flow. During the slow times between AEs, aircraft orders and contract stuff, other topics come up. We do a good job keeping things in bounds, but our mods (FTB/ACL/Johnso) poke us occasionally and say "hey guy, cut it out" and we all go back to being responsible posters.
I just hope that everyone can realize that this thread has a life of it's own - they might cut us a little slack and not shut it down if we stray a little bit. We should police ourselves and realize we don't see need to see tons of images of nearly naked women. If you can't find naked women on the internet yourself, first we need to revoke your Man card and second check you if you're a pilot.
I will finish by stating, The Mods are discussing the issues your brought up. Cooler heads need to prevail.
Now lets get back to what is up with DAL.
MEC meeting next week, and RA and a few others should be showing up. Discuss that, and send your suggestions for questions to your reps.
01-12-2012, 08:23 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Mecca320B
Posts: 94
most captains I fly with will be happy to get 20% raise. Ugh.
01-12-2012, 08:25 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
I'm back, because I have some confidence that Internet Brands is dealing with the issue.
The current Admin's position is that users have no value and bring nothing to this site. They can be banned, harassed and insulted without repercussion because they are visitors in the house Internet Brands owns. There is some truth to this in the law of large numbers.
However, I believe that users brought the value to this site and continue to do so every time they sign on. Customers are revenue.
Further, nearly all web board providers take the position that users are responsible for their posts. If sued, IB's defense would be that they simply hosted someone else's content. Logically that argument is that users own their posts and are responsible for them.
Not that I advocate a free for all. The founders of this site built it as a professional resource. Mods have allowed us to have a little fun that perhaps bordered on "porn under the yoke clip" behavior that needed to be brought under control from the CPO. Nothing wrong with professionalism.
Where it went over the line was newer Mods being excessively heavy handed and some Mods simply reacting on their basis of what they liked and did not like. The rules were not applied consistently and the result surprised people when Mods came down hard.
Where I think the site went over the line, is when Admin decided to begin threatening users who were critical of the moderation. When I called IB, they were mildly surprised that I was complaining about Admin when in fact I had not posted any of the offensive material. All I had done is rather impolitically pointed out what had become wrong with the site and what needed fixing.
APC needs users. All of you. At the higher levels of the company (which are driven by revenue) they know this. Without saying so, they know that we have choices.
Internet Brands knows what needs to be fixed. A "lot of people" have been calling them. I am perfectly willing to give them the chance. At the end of the day my loyalty is to the users of this web site first. I'm just your humble servant in this ... if they want to hang me (with no infractions) so be it.
One group of Mods wants to lock this thread. One group of Mods is arguing for moderation. My bet is on the power of 9.3 million page views on one thread alone.
The current Admin's position is that users have no value and bring nothing to this site. They can be banned, harassed and insulted without repercussion because they are visitors in the house Internet Brands owns. There is some truth to this in the law of large numbers.
However, I believe that users brought the value to this site and continue to do so every time they sign on. Customers are revenue.
Further, nearly all web board providers take the position that users are responsible for their posts. If sued, IB's defense would be that they simply hosted someone else's content. Logically that argument is that users own their posts and are responsible for them.
Not that I advocate a free for all. The founders of this site built it as a professional resource. Mods have allowed us to have a little fun that perhaps bordered on "porn under the yoke clip" behavior that needed to be brought under control from the CPO. Nothing wrong with professionalism.
Where it went over the line was newer Mods being excessively heavy handed and some Mods simply reacting on their basis of what they liked and did not like. The rules were not applied consistently and the result surprised people when Mods came down hard.
Where I think the site went over the line, is when Admin decided to begin threatening users who were critical of the moderation. When I called IB, they were mildly surprised that I was complaining about Admin when in fact I had not posted any of the offensive material. All I had done is rather impolitically pointed out what had become wrong with the site and what needed fixing.
APC needs users. All of you. At the higher levels of the company (which are driven by revenue) they know this. Without saying so, they know that we have choices.
The Current Map
The Admin thinks we are worthless ...
That percolates down to the Mods ...
Users are treated like garbage ... users leave, or start competing sites which harms APC
The Fix
Admin changed, or reminded that Users made this site and bring it content
Admin emphasizes a humble, customer service oriented attitude, to the mods
Happy Users support site by clicking on ads and buying things
The Admin thinks we are worthless ...
That percolates down to the Mods ...
Users are treated like garbage ... users leave, or start competing sites which harms APC
The Fix
Admin changed, or reminded that Users made this site and bring it content
Admin emphasizes a humble, customer service oriented attitude, to the mods
Happy Users support site by clicking on ads and buying things
Internet Brands knows what needs to be fixed. A "lot of people" have been calling them. I am perfectly willing to give them the chance. At the end of the day my loyalty is to the users of this web site first. I'm just your humble servant in this ... if they want to hang me (with no infractions) so be it.
One group of Mods wants to lock this thread. One group of Mods is arguing for moderation. My bet is on the power of 9.3 million page views on one thread alone.
01-12-2012, 08:34 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
I think not.
The confidentiality agreements are a tool management uses to manipulate our reps.
01-12-2012, 08:40 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Was in a meeting yesterday, hiring expected late this year to early next year. Also, the company is keeping a close eye on Europe, so expect another 3% capacity cut across the pond. The plan is to grow South/Latin America as AMR retrenches. I brought out the fact that the pilots were seriously underwhelmed by the LGA expansion, and they gave the usual we need to grow the market response.
01-12-2012, 08:48 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Was in a meeting yesterday, hiring expected late this year to early next year. Also, the company is keeping a close eye on Europe, so expect another 3% capacity cut across the pond. The plan is to grow South/Latin America as AMR retrenches. I brought out the fact that the pilots were seriously underwhelmed by the LGA expansion, and they gave the usual we need to grow the market response.
I think it was disingenuous to a degree to lead on that this would be mainline flying (so please write congress!) and it's disingenuous to say it will grow to mainline. What I see is routes that have always been Dash 8s being transferred to ERJ-145s. While good for Delta, Bedford, etc., it won't translate to us as increased mainline flying or even feed because even the market expanded and demand exceeded the seating capacity on these jets, why go to a larger jet? Just increase prices, after all, the RJs are more expensive to you need more profit. Supply and demand.
220 Flight Segments
202 or 92% Regional
18 or 8% Mainline
By type:
14 MD88 (MIA, NAS, RSW)
4 B737 (DEN)
E145 110 (ALB, BGR, BTV, CAE, CHO, CLE, GSO, GSP, IAD, ILM, MHT, ORF, PHL, RIC, ROA, SDF, SYR, YHZ, YOW, YUL)
CRJ700 38 (BNA, BTV, CLT, MYR, PIT, RDU, ROC, STL, SYR)
E170/175 30 (DFW, IAH, IND, JAX, MCI, MKE, PIT)
CRJ900 22 (BUF, MKE, PIT)
CPJ 2 (RIC)
202 or 92% Regional
18 or 8% Mainline
By type:
14 MD88 (MIA, NAS, RSW)
4 B737 (DEN)
E145 110 (ALB, BGR, BTV, CAE, CHO, CLE, GSO, GSP, IAD, ILM, MHT, ORF, PHL, RIC, ROA, SDF, SYR, YHZ, YOW, YUL)
CRJ700 38 (BNA, BTV, CLT, MYR, PIT, RDU, ROC, STL, SYR)
E170/175 30 (DFW, IAH, IND, JAX, MCI, MKE, PIT)
CRJ900 22 (BUF, MKE, PIT)
CPJ 2 (RIC)
9 airlines. We're playing with fire.
I agree.
01-12-2012, 08:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
Deal Journal colleagues Gina Chon, Anupreeta Das and Mike Spector report that Delta Air Lines and private equity firm TPG Capital are separately assessing possible bids for American Airlines parent AMR Corp., people familiar with the matter said.
AMR filed for bankruptcy court protection in late November and is in the midst of restructuring its debt and cutting labor costs after it. Any bid for AMR likely would come several months from now.
Tawk amongst yahselvs
Last edited by flyallnite; 01-12-2012 at 09:10 AM.
01-12-2012, 09:12 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
Here's the article for DAL's possible AMR bid:
Delta, TPG Assessing Bids for American Airlines Parent, AMR - WSJ.com
Dallas domicile may be back!
Delta, TPG Assessing Bids for American Airlines Parent, AMR - WSJ.com
Dallas domicile may be back!
01-12-2012, 09:12 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,590
01-12-2012, 09:13 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 767-400
Posts: 797
Deal Journal colleagues Gina Chon, Anupreeta Das and Mike Spector report that Delta Air Lines and private equity firm TPG Capital are separately assessing possible bids for American Airlines parent AMR Corp., people familiar with the matter said.
AMR filed for bankruptcy court protection in late November and is in the midst of restructuring its debt and cutting labor costs after it. Any bid for AMR likely would come several months from now.
Tawk amongst yahselvs
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