Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-09-2011, 08:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Not to sound like a whiner here but anyone else find the three back-to-back commercials (on jets that can show them) that start blaring three seconds after gear retraction extremely tacky and annoying?
Nothing like a quiet, slow late afternoon taxi to the runway ending with loud car commercials waking any customer up who was napping.
Nothing like a quiet, slow late afternoon taxi to the runway ending with loud car commercials waking any customer up who was napping.
I absolutely hate them... and so do our customers. Every time I'm commuting on DAL or any other airline, and talk with a passenger, they complain about the non-stop Delta marketing bombardment of commercials for Lincoln, credit cards, sky miles, etc. etc. etc. while they're trying to sleep. I think it's annoying and insulting, and makes us seem like a snake-oil used car salesman. Totally tacky. And the fact you can't turn off the TV entertainment monitor during the commercials, FORCED to watch it and listen at heinously high volume, would really **** me off if I paid $5000 for a ticket...
Here's how I look at it:
1.) American Express pays Delta a LOT of money to do the credit card thing. (Anyone know how much?)
2.) Every card they sign up is one less person who is susceptible to the SWA bags fly free commercials.
Annoying? Maybe. Smart? You betcha.
12-09-2011, 08:28 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 432
Airfares out of the Twin Cities remain high. The most recent government study, released in August, ranked MSP 11th among the nation's largest airports in airfares in the first quarter of this year, with a $413 average ticket price for domestic flights.
[email protected] •
12-09-2011, 08:32 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Star Tribune bashing Delta (NWA) again. The latest from the rag:
Clearly, Dan Boivin does not understand the role of a lap dog.
Rule No. 1: Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Boivin is the chairman of the Metropolitan Airports Commission. Last week the agency released a report showing that Minnesotans generally pay higher average airfares than people who fly from other major airports.
No surprise there. At least a half-dozen studies over the past two decades also have concluded that minimal competition allowed Northwest Airlines, and later Delta, to charge higher prices here.
But none of those studies was ever commissioned by the MAC, which generally has gone out of its way not to offend the airport's biggest paying tenant.
Boivin insists that MAC's relationship with Delta remains strong, "but I've made it clear that we'd like to continue to grow air service, and one complaint we hear is the price of air travel."
Even saying that aloud suggests that things are different now.
One of Boivin's predecessors, Vicki Tigwell, the MAC chair from 2003 through 2006, flatly said she didn't believe studies that found higher prices at MSP. Mostly, though, MAC leaders avoided having to comment directly on those studies.
And I don't fault them. Apart from actual competition, few things provoked the fury of Northwest executives as much as the suggestion that it overcharged customers. I experienced this as an editor on a 2005 project that questioned the wisdom of the MAC's support of Northwest's $900 million airport expansion plan. The project included two fare studies that the Star Tribune commissioned.
Northwest's response? Imagine a conference room full of those flying, screaming monkeys from "The Wizard of Oz."
Boivin has been on the commission since 2002, and he sparred frequently with MAC staff and Northwest officials over noise insulation programs and efforts to recruit more airlines. Gov. Mark Dayton appointed him chairman last year.
Still, he encountered no screaming monkeys when he asked the staff and a consultant to analyze fares at MSP. Delta has generally been much more tempered in its response to these studies, even declining to comment on a government study released during the summer.
"They've said they don't mind any competition," Boivin said. "And they know where I stand."
Even if the new study tells us something we already knew, the findings do provide a small window into how much bankruptcies and mergers have reshaped the airline industry and, paradoxically, helped introduce more competition -- even at so-called fortress hubs, like MSP.
Last year, for example, airlines other than Delta, United and American -- those relegated mostly to Terminal 2 -- carried 10 percent of all passengers at MSP, up from 7 percent in 2005.
Through October of this year, the number of people flying on Southwest, AirTran, Sun Country and other low-fare carriers is up more than 13 percent, while passenger volumes on the major carriers are flat.
Airfares out of the Twin Cities remain high. The most recent government study, released in August, ranked MSP 11th among the nation's largest airports in airfares in the first quarter of this year, with a $413 average ticket price for domestic flights.
But in 2008 we ranked sixth, and you have to wonder if the increased competition is responsible for that change. The MAC analysis, after all, found that the average one-way fare from MSP was $59 cheaper if the route was also served by a low-fare competitor.
Lower fares are generally great news for consumers and airports because, as fares fall, more people travel.
But it's not necessarily good news for all.
Carriers like Southwest are interested in the most popular destinations. If Delta's pricing power on those routes weakens, it might turn around and raise prices on nonstop routes that it has to itself, such as MSP to Saskatoon.
Other destinations might fall off the route map altogether, or see reduced service in the form of fewer flights or smaller planes.
That's already happening at MSP. Last year, more than a quarter of passengers arrived or departed on aircraft with 70 or fewer seats, vs. 12 percent in 2005.
Delta's increasing reliance on smaller planes, coupled with other recent events, has left some officials feeling anxious about the airline's commitment to the Twin Cities as a major hub.
In the summer, Delta, which paid $3 billion to acquire Northwest in 2008, said it will stop flying to some smaller cities, such as International Falls, and announced plans to move 400 more jobs out of the state.
In October, Delta said it would pay off a state loan early, which frees it from the obligation of having at least 10,000 employees in Minnesota. (Context: In 2001, Northwest had more than 21,000 Minnesota workers.)
Like his predecessors, Boivin believes that Delta's presence is key to the region's vitality. "Cities like Cleveland and Cincinnati would kill to have the kind of air service we have," he said.
And Boivin's not too worried about losing it. Thanks in part to the higher prices Delta can charge at MSP, "we're a very profitable hub for them," he said.
[email protected] •
Clearly, Dan Boivin does not understand the role of a lap dog.
Rule No. 1: Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Boivin is the chairman of the Metropolitan Airports Commission. Last week the agency released a report showing that Minnesotans generally pay higher average airfares than people who fly from other major airports.
No surprise there. At least a half-dozen studies over the past two decades also have concluded that minimal competition allowed Northwest Airlines, and later Delta, to charge higher prices here.
But none of those studies was ever commissioned by the MAC, which generally has gone out of its way not to offend the airport's biggest paying tenant.
Boivin insists that MAC's relationship with Delta remains strong, "but I've made it clear that we'd like to continue to grow air service, and one complaint we hear is the price of air travel."
Even saying that aloud suggests that things are different now.
One of Boivin's predecessors, Vicki Tigwell, the MAC chair from 2003 through 2006, flatly said she didn't believe studies that found higher prices at MSP. Mostly, though, MAC leaders avoided having to comment directly on those studies.
And I don't fault them. Apart from actual competition, few things provoked the fury of Northwest executives as much as the suggestion that it overcharged customers. I experienced this as an editor on a 2005 project that questioned the wisdom of the MAC's support of Northwest's $900 million airport expansion plan. The project included two fare studies that the Star Tribune commissioned.
Northwest's response? Imagine a conference room full of those flying, screaming monkeys from "The Wizard of Oz."
Boivin has been on the commission since 2002, and he sparred frequently with MAC staff and Northwest officials over noise insulation programs and efforts to recruit more airlines. Gov. Mark Dayton appointed him chairman last year.
Still, he encountered no screaming monkeys when he asked the staff and a consultant to analyze fares at MSP. Delta has generally been much more tempered in its response to these studies, even declining to comment on a government study released during the summer.
"They've said they don't mind any competition," Boivin said. "And they know where I stand."
Even if the new study tells us something we already knew, the findings do provide a small window into how much bankruptcies and mergers have reshaped the airline industry and, paradoxically, helped introduce more competition -- even at so-called fortress hubs, like MSP.
Last year, for example, airlines other than Delta, United and American -- those relegated mostly to Terminal 2 -- carried 10 percent of all passengers at MSP, up from 7 percent in 2005.
Through October of this year, the number of people flying on Southwest, AirTran, Sun Country and other low-fare carriers is up more than 13 percent, while passenger volumes on the major carriers are flat.
Airfares out of the Twin Cities remain high. The most recent government study, released in August, ranked MSP 11th among the nation's largest airports in airfares in the first quarter of this year, with a $413 average ticket price for domestic flights.
But in 2008 we ranked sixth, and you have to wonder if the increased competition is responsible for that change. The MAC analysis, after all, found that the average one-way fare from MSP was $59 cheaper if the route was also served by a low-fare competitor.
Lower fares are generally great news for consumers and airports because, as fares fall, more people travel.
But it's not necessarily good news for all.
Carriers like Southwest are interested in the most popular destinations. If Delta's pricing power on those routes weakens, it might turn around and raise prices on nonstop routes that it has to itself, such as MSP to Saskatoon.
Other destinations might fall off the route map altogether, or see reduced service in the form of fewer flights or smaller planes.
That's already happening at MSP. Last year, more than a quarter of passengers arrived or departed on aircraft with 70 or fewer seats, vs. 12 percent in 2005.
Delta's increasing reliance on smaller planes, coupled with other recent events, has left some officials feeling anxious about the airline's commitment to the Twin Cities as a major hub.
In the summer, Delta, which paid $3 billion to acquire Northwest in 2008, said it will stop flying to some smaller cities, such as International Falls, and announced plans to move 400 more jobs out of the state.
In October, Delta said it would pay off a state loan early, which frees it from the obligation of having at least 10,000 employees in Minnesota. (Context: In 2001, Northwest had more than 21,000 Minnesota workers.)
Like his predecessors, Boivin believes that Delta's presence is key to the region's vitality. "Cities like Cleveland and Cincinnati would kill to have the kind of air service we have," he said.
And Boivin's not too worried about losing it. Thanks in part to the higher prices Delta can charge at MSP, "we're a very profitable hub for them," he said.
[email protected] •
CVG and the city of Cincinnati went down this same path with Delta. Look what happened there. Now all the news stories in Cincinnati are about "where did all our air service go." Maybe someone should send the MSP Chamber of Commerce the address of the Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce and they could get some lessons learned. Support your hub or it will go away.
12-09-2011, 08:35 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Lil Bus A
Posts: 412
11th among the nation's largest airports? How is that anything to complain about? What's qualifies "nation's largest airports?" Is it the top 15, 20, 30? either way 11th seems low on the list. Sometimes I think newspapers just love to try to put negative things out about airlines to rile people up.
I agree, Star & Sickle loves to rile people up.
12-09-2011, 08:51 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Alarmist graphic of the Day
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 12-09-2011 at 09:04 AM.
12-09-2011, 09:02 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
since deleting isn't a choice ...
12-09-2011, 09:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 310
CVG and the city of Cincinnati went down this same path with Delta. Look what happened there. Now all the news stories in Cincinnati are about "where did all our air service go." Maybe someone should send the MSP Chamber of Commerce the address of the Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce and they could get some lessons learned. Support your hub or it will go away.
There was a similar article in Sunday's S-T in which they only mentioned, in the last paragraph, how most passengers are fine with the higher price as long as their flights don't have stops. Gotta sell papers, right?
12-09-2011, 09:39 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
CVG and the city of Cincinnati went down this same path with Delta. Look what happened there. Now all the news stories in Cincinnati are about "where did all our air service go." Maybe someone should send the MSP Chamber of Commerce the address of the Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce and they could get some lessons learned. Support your hub or it will go away.
12-09-2011, 09:40 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Of course they don't mention all of the non-stop destinations that can be reached from MSP on DAL. They just want "more competition" (lower fares). As if getting more flights from the likes of UAL/AA/LCC/WN would provide more non-stop destinations...
There was a similar article in Sunday's S-T in which they only mentioned, in the last paragraph, how most passengers are fine with the higher price as long as their flights don't have stops. Gotta sell papers, right?
There was a similar article in Sunday's S-T in which they only mentioned, in the last paragraph, how most passengers are fine with the higher price as long as their flights don't have stops. Gotta sell papers, right?
12-09-2011, 09:42 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
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