Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-28-2011, 11:58 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
St. Maarten ain't nothing other than watching planes land over a beach which is cool. I think the landings are more fun for pilots but the takeoffs are more fun for the non pilots.
All I can say 100% of the time I flew corporate jets there it was to offload folks onto a Twin Otter so they could go to St. Barts. I spent some time there but I can't tell you where we stayed, I think it was on the French side but maybe Dutch. There's supposedly a difference, I think French is better? I can't remember who owned what.
Now I don't know a thing about St. Barts, just heard it's 250' yachts and $10 beer. Someone else may know more.
Whatever you do Timbo, don't land short showing off:
All I can say 100% of the time I flew corporate jets there it was to offload folks onto a Twin Otter so they could go to St. Barts. I spent some time there but I can't tell you where we stayed, I think it was on the French side but maybe Dutch. There's supposedly a difference, I think French is better? I can't remember who owned what.
Now I don't know a thing about St. Barts, just heard it's 250' yachts and $10 beer. Someone else may know more.
Whatever you do Timbo, don't land short showing off:
Supposedly the Dutch beach is topless, the French beach is NAKED! Now, which one has the finer scenery I'll have to investigate and get back to you!
I couldn't care less about the runway and the idiots on the beach, ( I watched one get cartwheeled into the ocean when the KLM 747 took off, that was fun!) I only want to go for the Sailing, the Heineken Regatta and the warm water...oh, and the underboob!
Heineken Regatta | 31st Edition | Sint Maarten | St Martin
11-28-2011, 12:00 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
AJC Sunday Paper
Delta Air Lines' largest hub in Atlanta and its smallest hub in Cincinnati tell two different stories of the turbulent economy.
At Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, Delta has been cutting back on some of its overseas flying, but it has still maintained a critical mass of about 1,000 daily departures and nearly 70 nonstop international routes.
Cincinnati, where Delta once had more than 600 daily departures, has now shrunk to the carrier's smallest hub with roughly 130 flights a day. Delta used to operate its hundreds of flights out of three concourses at the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport. It has since pulled out of two of them and uses just one concourse. The airport is now studying whether to demolish one of the abandoned concourses along with two aging terminals.
In one of the old Cincinnati terminals, a baggage carousel sits quietly in the dark, unused. The people-mover train whisks by an empty concourse without stopping.
The cutbacks have hurt frequent travelers and the business community in the Cincinnati area.
"It's horrible," said John Robbins, who lives in the greater Cincinnati area and flies a couple of times a week for his job as a field service engineer. "It's hurt a lot of people."
The reasons for the wildly different outcomes in Atlanta versus Cincinnati are many, Delta says. Among them are the strong local demand for air travel by large global businesses such as Coca-Cola, the efficient design of Hartsfield-Jackson, the relationship between Delta and the city and the advantageous geographical location of Atlanta as a connecting hub.
Atlanta's location makes it a great place for the airline to connect travelers from the East Coast and Midwest on their way to Europe, Africa, the Middle East and Latin America, said Delta spokesman Trebor Banstetter. That has allowed Delta to build Atlanta into its No. 1 international gateway and the world's largest airline hub.
To be sure, Atlanta isn't immune from the cutbacks that Delta and other airlines have been making. Delta last week announced it will discontinue several international routes from Atlanta, including flights to Shanghai and seasonal flights to Athens, Greece; Copenhagen; Denmark; Moscow; Prague; and Tel Aviv, Israel.
But in these tough times, "Airlines basically circle the wagons around their strongest hubs," said Port Washington, N.Y.-based airline consultant Bob Mann. So for Delta, Atlanta and a few other strong hubs "end up being the cities around which they circle their wagons. Those are the very durable hubs."
Delta's 2008 acquisition of Northwest Airlines also gave it a total of seven U.S. hubs. Now, rather than connecting travelers through weaker hubs like Cincinnati or Memphis, an old Northwest hub, Delta is consolidating connections through the strongest: Atlanta, New York, Detroit, Minneapolis and Salt Lake City.
Robbins said all of his customers used to be a direct flight away from Cincinnati.
Now he has to connect at another Delta hub, and getting to his destination "becomes an all-day event," he said. Instead of seeing two or three customers a week like he used to, he can often only see one.
Even for leisure travelers in the Cincinnati area, the effects are noticeable.
"You used to be able to fly anywhere, anytime you want to," said Ken Piper, who lives near Cincinnati. "That's no longer the case."
Cincinnati officials are adjusting to a new reality.
The Cincinnati concourse that could be demolished, Concourse C, was built in 1994 at a heady time for the airport. It was part of a $500 million expansion when Cincinnati had been designated Delta's No. 2 hub and the airport expanded to more than 100 gates.
That airport "was built for a different time and a different expectation," Mann said. "There has been a course correction ... That's the risk you take with a very long gestation period" for airport development.
Now, the airport doesn't have nearly enough flights to fill all those gates and has lost all but one of its overseas flights amid Delta's cutbacks. Cincinnati airport officials are partnering with local chambers to figure out how to attract international flights to London or Frankfurt.
"We are doing things that we haven't had to do in decades," said Meghan Glynn, vice president of external affairs for the airport. "It's a very entrepreneurial situation."
Meanwhile, Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport is preparing to open a new international terminal next year to prepare for expected growth in international flying by Delta --- even though Delta has had to pull back on its international growth plans amid high fuel prices and the uncertain economy.
Airport officials are confident Delta "will continue to grow in the future," Hartsfield-Jackson general manager Louis Miller said.
Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed said the Atlanta hub's resilience is "symbolic of the strong partnership we've developed" with Delta and its chief executive, Richard Anderson. The airport and the thousands of flights a day it hosts are "essential to the region, the state and the Southeast," Reed said.
Delta's move to focus on Atlanta and a few other strong hubs helps to make it "as durable as possible and to minimize the possibility that any event could impact Atlanta service," Mann said.
But Cincinnati officials have learned that the world changes rapidly, according to Steve Stevens, president of the Northern Kentucky Chamber of Commerce.
Though Cincinnati once had more flights than it needed, "I don't think anybody can think they have a lock on it," Stevens said. "There's always a factor that you don't realize or understand. And you know, in this day and age of mergers and acquisitions, those things happen fairly quickly."
Delta's U.S. hub cities
departures /destinations /destinations (international)
Atlanta 975 /209 / 64
Detroit 529 /132 /18
Minneapolis-St. Paul 440 /130 /14
Salt Lake City 257 /84 /6
Memphis 172 /65 /1
New York (JFK) 154 /73 /30
Cincinnati 130 /50 /2
Copyright 2011 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
At Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, Delta has been cutting back on some of its overseas flying, but it has still maintained a critical mass of about 1,000 daily departures and nearly 70 nonstop international routes.
Cincinnati, where Delta once had more than 600 daily departures, has now shrunk to the carrier's smallest hub with roughly 130 flights a day. Delta used to operate its hundreds of flights out of three concourses at the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport. It has since pulled out of two of them and uses just one concourse. The airport is now studying whether to demolish one of the abandoned concourses along with two aging terminals.
In one of the old Cincinnati terminals, a baggage carousel sits quietly in the dark, unused. The people-mover train whisks by an empty concourse without stopping.
The cutbacks have hurt frequent travelers and the business community in the Cincinnati area.
"It's horrible," said John Robbins, who lives in the greater Cincinnati area and flies a couple of times a week for his job as a field service engineer. "It's hurt a lot of people."
The reasons for the wildly different outcomes in Atlanta versus Cincinnati are many, Delta says. Among them are the strong local demand for air travel by large global businesses such as Coca-Cola, the efficient design of Hartsfield-Jackson, the relationship between Delta and the city and the advantageous geographical location of Atlanta as a connecting hub.
Atlanta's location makes it a great place for the airline to connect travelers from the East Coast and Midwest on their way to Europe, Africa, the Middle East and Latin America, said Delta spokesman Trebor Banstetter. That has allowed Delta to build Atlanta into its No. 1 international gateway and the world's largest airline hub.
To be sure, Atlanta isn't immune from the cutbacks that Delta and other airlines have been making. Delta last week announced it will discontinue several international routes from Atlanta, including flights to Shanghai and seasonal flights to Athens, Greece; Copenhagen; Denmark; Moscow; Prague; and Tel Aviv, Israel.
But in these tough times, "Airlines basically circle the wagons around their strongest hubs," said Port Washington, N.Y.-based airline consultant Bob Mann. So for Delta, Atlanta and a few other strong hubs "end up being the cities around which they circle their wagons. Those are the very durable hubs."
Delta's 2008 acquisition of Northwest Airlines also gave it a total of seven U.S. hubs. Now, rather than connecting travelers through weaker hubs like Cincinnati or Memphis, an old Northwest hub, Delta is consolidating connections through the strongest: Atlanta, New York, Detroit, Minneapolis and Salt Lake City.
Robbins said all of his customers used to be a direct flight away from Cincinnati.
Now he has to connect at another Delta hub, and getting to his destination "becomes an all-day event," he said. Instead of seeing two or three customers a week like he used to, he can often only see one.
Even for leisure travelers in the Cincinnati area, the effects are noticeable.
"You used to be able to fly anywhere, anytime you want to," said Ken Piper, who lives near Cincinnati. "That's no longer the case."
Cincinnati officials are adjusting to a new reality.
The Cincinnati concourse that could be demolished, Concourse C, was built in 1994 at a heady time for the airport. It was part of a $500 million expansion when Cincinnati had been designated Delta's No. 2 hub and the airport expanded to more than 100 gates.
That airport "was built for a different time and a different expectation," Mann said. "There has been a course correction ... That's the risk you take with a very long gestation period" for airport development.
Now, the airport doesn't have nearly enough flights to fill all those gates and has lost all but one of its overseas flights amid Delta's cutbacks. Cincinnati airport officials are partnering with local chambers to figure out how to attract international flights to London or Frankfurt.
"We are doing things that we haven't had to do in decades," said Meghan Glynn, vice president of external affairs for the airport. "It's a very entrepreneurial situation."
Meanwhile, Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport is preparing to open a new international terminal next year to prepare for expected growth in international flying by Delta --- even though Delta has had to pull back on its international growth plans amid high fuel prices and the uncertain economy.
Airport officials are confident Delta "will continue to grow in the future," Hartsfield-Jackson general manager Louis Miller said.
Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed said the Atlanta hub's resilience is "symbolic of the strong partnership we've developed" with Delta and its chief executive, Richard Anderson. The airport and the thousands of flights a day it hosts are "essential to the region, the state and the Southeast," Reed said.
Delta's move to focus on Atlanta and a few other strong hubs helps to make it "as durable as possible and to minimize the possibility that any event could impact Atlanta service," Mann said.
But Cincinnati officials have learned that the world changes rapidly, according to Steve Stevens, president of the Northern Kentucky Chamber of Commerce.
Though Cincinnati once had more flights than it needed, "I don't think anybody can think they have a lock on it," Stevens said. "There's always a factor that you don't realize or understand. And you know, in this day and age of mergers and acquisitions, those things happen fairly quickly."
Delta's U.S. hub cities
departures /destinations /destinations (international)
Atlanta 975 /209 / 64
Detroit 529 /132 /18
Minneapolis-St. Paul 440 /130 /14
Salt Lake City 257 /84 /6
Memphis 172 /65 /1
New York (JFK) 154 /73 /30
Cincinnati 130 /50 /2
Copyright 2011 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
11-28-2011, 12:19 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
Yeah, I know what the last F is for, and I've got one more F for you;
If it's got Four legs!
And I've got 4 kids...and they have 5 dogs and 6 horses...so I'm pretty broke!
When I was young and single, I had a much bigger sailboat, and I had a J3 Cub, and then I got married and did that last F...and I've been paying for it ever since.
11-28-2011, 12:23 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 107
But that definition of "unity" does not require ALPA to attain. We can be unified without paying for Lee Moak's car, secretaries that make more than we do, a snazzy magazine, absolutely unconscionable expenses, an utter lack of FPL transparency, the obligation to confer with those who would undercut us...you get the idea.
"Unity" and "ALPA" are mutually exclusive. But I'm all for unity.
11-28-2011, 12:38 PM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
Ain't buying any of it? Ridiculous. If we don't see a sizeable raise, DALPA is gone. Just think, they may actually have to NEGOTIATE....who'd a thunk it....Get to it or move over.
11-28-2011, 01:07 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Umm.......when we see a raise in our paychecks (1%% or 99%) it will be because we voted it in as a majority, and will give a likely snapshot of what a union drive vote would look like.
11-28-2011, 01:45 PM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
IF it is a weak TA, it won't pass, and the DPA will roll in. I'd wait an extra year for better pay rather than wait for 5 more with a crappy weak contract. Even United/CAL people are becoming disenchanted with their ALPA unit too. What a mess. No pressure DALPA, but come back with something acceptable or stay in the room and keep working.....I pay enough to demand that of my bargaining unit. I hope the rumors are true about them being in a huff about having to actually negotiate. Do it.
11-28-2011, 01:53 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,431
Too true. What?...flamebait on an anonymous message board? I'm shocked...shocked!
11-28-2011, 01:57 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
.
IF it is a weak TA, it won't pass, and the DPA will roll in. I'd wait an extra year for better pay rather than wait for 5 more with a crappy weak contract. Even United/CAL people are becoming disenchanted with their ALPA unit too. What a mess. No pressure DALPA, but come back with something acceptable or stay in the room and keep working.....I pay enough to demand that of my bargaining unit. I hope the rumors are true about them being in a huff about having to actually negotiate. Do it.
IF it is a weak TA, it won't pass, and the DPA will roll in. I'd wait an extra year for better pay rather than wait for 5 more with a crappy weak contract. Even United/CAL people are becoming disenchanted with their ALPA unit too. What a mess. No pressure DALPA, but come back with something acceptable or stay in the room and keep working.....I pay enough to demand that of my bargaining unit. I hope the rumors are true about them being in a huff about having to actually negotiate. Do it.
"....them being in a huff about having to actually negotiate."
-PLEASE, you actually believe drivel like that?
The NC/MEC/LEC/etc. will be working under that same agreement!
What incentive do any of them have to put out a crappy product? Would you put out a knowingly subpar TA if you were on the NC? If the answer is H#LL NO, then why do you think the guys on the NC would screw themselves with a bad deal? It doesn't pass the "rational thought" smell test.
11-28-2011, 02:02 PM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
Should you always give up a source? If you do it, then sources will become extinct. This is a rumor board, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. It's funny if it is true, but understandable since I've had LEC members already try to manage my expectations. "We're not Southwest.". "The NMB will come down hard on us....."
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