Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-20-2011, 06:27 PM
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
11-20-2011, 06:28 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Do you think the contract comparison we received as well as other union produced sources of information will have any impact on the survey results? I do. Not every has a close friend/next door neighbor that works at SWA like I do to get the real info. I expected leadership to provide a vector, but if they want to lead from the bottom up, fine.....but at least give useable info out.
Well, we'll never know the answer to that because we will NEVER see those survey results. NEVER. Something to do with poker...
Carl
11-20-2011, 06:29 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: 767
Posts: 66
"There is NOT a finite amount of money given to pilots. That is the pie method, you get your slice, and that's it."
Bill Lumberg, there is a finite amount we can get. There is a limit to the size of the pie. The corporation is about $35 Billion in revenue. Do you think our pay increase could exceed that value? No.
Your argument that it is just a cost of doing business ignores concepts of sustainability and what constitutes a reasonable contract. Keep in mind that there is a pilot reasonable contract, company reasonable, and NMB reasonable. NMB reasonable being the controlling factor when it comes to getting a contract. No matter what your resolve is, convincing the NMB that what you are asking for is reasonable, is the hurdle. Getting the max NMB reasonable and timing the company to peak in their position at that time, and then having the pilot group come to the conclusion that it is an acceptable deal for them is quite a challenge to get to come together all at the same time.
Bill Lumberg, there is a finite amount we can get. There is a limit to the size of the pie. The corporation is about $35 Billion in revenue. Do you think our pay increase could exceed that value? No.
Your argument that it is just a cost of doing business ignores concepts of sustainability and what constitutes a reasonable contract. Keep in mind that there is a pilot reasonable contract, company reasonable, and NMB reasonable. NMB reasonable being the controlling factor when it comes to getting a contract. No matter what your resolve is, convincing the NMB that what you are asking for is reasonable, is the hurdle. Getting the max NMB reasonable and timing the company to peak in their position at that time, and then having the pilot group come to the conclusion that it is an acceptable deal for them is quite a challenge to get to come together all at the same time.
11-20-2011, 06:33 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
"There is NOT a finite amount of money given to pilots. That is the pie method, you get your slice, and that's it."
Bill Lumberg, there is a finite amount we can get. There is a limit to the size of the pie. The corporation is about $35 Billion in revenue. Do you think our pay increase could exceed that value? No.
Your argument that it is just a cost of doing business ignores concepts of sustainability and what constitutes a reasonable contract. Keep in mind that there is a pilot reasonable contract, company reasonable, and NMB reasonable. NMB reasonable being the controlling factor when it comes to getting a contract. No matter what your resolve is, convincing the NMB that what you are asking for is reasonable, is the hurdle. Getting the max NMB reasonable and timing the company to peak in their position at that time, and then having the pilot group come to the conclusion that it is an acceptable deal for them is quite a challenge to get to come together all at the same time.
Bill Lumberg, there is a finite amount we can get. There is a limit to the size of the pie. The corporation is about $35 Billion in revenue. Do you think our pay increase could exceed that value? No.
Your argument that it is just a cost of doing business ignores concepts of sustainability and what constitutes a reasonable contract. Keep in mind that there is a pilot reasonable contract, company reasonable, and NMB reasonable. NMB reasonable being the controlling factor when it comes to getting a contract. No matter what your resolve is, convincing the NMB that what you are asking for is reasonable, is the hurdle. Getting the max NMB reasonable and timing the company to peak in their position at that time, and then having the pilot group come to the conclusion that it is an acceptable deal for them is quite a challenge to get to come together all at the same time.
Carl
11-20-2011, 06:33 PM
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
You got a point there. Flying 1000 hours a year only averages out to 83 hours. I guess if you add in credit time, GSs and whatnot, you might be able to average 87, but that would take flying like an FA to get there.
11-20-2011, 06:36 PM
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
Somebody gonna get a time out!
Ooooohh man when 80 gets back online somebody's gonna get a time out!!!!!
Thread creep makes him mad!
Thread creep makes him mad!
11-20-2011, 06:36 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
11-20-2011, 06:38 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
11-20-2011, 06:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,511
Can't you just hear sailingfun's DALPA contacts saying: "What the **** are you trying to do to us here man? We can't let this stuff out to the members until they see it in the Tentative Agreement. Now go back in there and fix this. We're not paying you that volunteer flight pay loss for nothing!"
And then...
Most of us are able to remember your previous posts and see your double speak here sailingfun. It's just so amazing that DALPA is stooping to this level of activity. The constant lowering of expectations, mischaracterization of SWAPA's contract, and purposeful omission of Air France pay makes you guys look like you are literally being funded by management.
Like I've always said, we'll have to fight DALPA just as hard as management if we are to have any shot at an industry leading contract. Darn shame.
Carl
And then...
Most of us are able to remember your previous posts and see your double speak here sailingfun. It's just so amazing that DALPA is stooping to this level of activity. The constant lowering of expectations, mischaracterization of SWAPA's contract, and purposeful omission of Air France pay makes you guys look like you are literally being funded by management.
Like I've always said, we'll have to fight DALPA just as hard as management if we are to have any shot at an industry leading contract. Darn shame.
Carl
11-20-2011, 06:44 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
We really need a swa pilot to chime in on how their work rules enable them to work 12 days and get paid $240K on average. Or is it simpler than that?
Even the most skilled trip parkers and greenslippers have to contend with FAR limits.
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