Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-11-2011, 06:55 PM
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11-11-2011, 06:59 PM
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11-11-2011, 07:04 PM
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If you were to look at the seniority of the 205 MEM pilots you're looking at a group who is senior in the A category and junior in the B category.
The most junior 320 A is slightly more senior then the plug on ATL 73N A and the plug on MEM DC9 A is senior to the ATL M88 A plug. Senior A's there but not necessarily "old", just senior kind of like the 7ER category.
All that to say if flying will now be covered out of ATL for MEM flying then ATL will have a place for them and hardly be noticed. ATL 88 has almost 1,000 total pilots and the 737 comes in around 500-600. Adding 60 give or take or so pilots won't make a huge difference to those two categories and even to the ATL 320 category it's not an incredible jump. So if flying increases and that flying is covered by all 3 ATL NBs then ATL can take all MEM new comers... except adding 200 people to your commute would be pure unadulterated hell. It'd be one thing if it was a reasonable drive but MEM is far from ATL.
See people will go in different directions. I know if I was forced to commute my choices in bidding would have very different priorities then what people would traditionally think.
The most junior 320 A is slightly more senior then the plug on ATL 73N A and the plug on MEM DC9 A is senior to the ATL M88 A plug. Senior A's there but not necessarily "old", just senior kind of like the 7ER category.
All that to say if flying will now be covered out of ATL for MEM flying then ATL will have a place for them and hardly be noticed. ATL 88 has almost 1,000 total pilots and the 737 comes in around 500-600. Adding 60 give or take or so pilots won't make a huge difference to those two categories and even to the ATL 320 category it's not an incredible jump. So if flying increases and that flying is covered by all 3 ATL NBs then ATL can take all MEM new comers... except adding 200 people to your commute would be pure unadulterated hell. It'd be one thing if it was a reasonable drive but MEM is far from ATL.
See people will go in different directions. I know if I was forced to commute my choices in bidding would have very different priorities then what people would traditionally think.
Last edited by Bill Lumberg; 11-11-2011 at 07:23 PM.
11-11-2011, 07:18 PM
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That would make sense on the surface as the airplanes are both essentially DC-9's. But one thing to consider is that there are some pretty significant differences in the way Delta operates the MD-88 versus the way NWA (now Delta) operates the DC-9. In other words, the DC-9 and MD-88 operations were not standardized very well with each other. This was (and still is at times) a major frustration for me as a south guy coming from the MD-88 to the DC-9. I can imagine it would be a similar level of frustration going the other way. Not a show stopper, but just one more thing to throw in there for consideration.
11-11-2011, 07:19 PM
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First, do you understand the increases in manning for FO's that will result in no 23.G obligations. Look at the training that will be required going forward, think about the number of OE's that will have to be done. Every one of those FO's is off the hook, completely. That is worth 3-4% staffing in each seat alone. Suffice to say fixing this is huge.
Just thinking out loud, and yes, now my brain hurts....
11-11-2011, 07:30 PM
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What do you think the odds are that they change the bidding software such that all trips (or a certain percentage variable each month) that a LCP bids, get removed from the available trips for FO's. This would reduce the impact to the company and therefore minimize/negate the "anticipated value" of this change.
Just thinking out loud, and yes, now my brain hurts....
Just thinking out loud, and yes, now my brain hurts....
11-11-2011, 07:34 PM
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That would make sense on the surface as the airplanes are both essentially DC-9's. But one thing to consider is that there are some pretty significant differences in the way Delta operates the MD-88 versus the way NWA (now Delta) operates the DC-9. In other words, the DC-9 and MD-88 operations were not standardized very well with each other. This was (and still is at times) a major frustration for me as a south guy coming from the MD-88 to the DC-9. I can imagine it would be a similar level of frustration going the other way. Not a show stopper, but just one more thing to throw in there for consideration.
11-11-2011, 07:56 PM
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But that's one of the things that is so puzzling to me. I'm not sure how to quantify it in terms of percentage, but I wouldn't say that the current DC-9 operation is 95% the same as the MD-88. Nowhere close. (When I finished DC-9 training, I had a 4 page MS word document of discrepancies/standardization issues.) So if they were going to change a bunch of things on the DC-9 from the way NWA did it, why would they change it to yet a third standard instead of changing it to the way Delta does the same thing on the MD-88... or changing the MD-88 to standardize it with the DC-9? When you're trying to accomplish the same exact thing with the same exact system at the same exact airline, it just doesn't make sense to me to do it one way on the DC-9 and do it a different way on the MD-88. Pick the way you think is best, and go with that. I thought that's what they were supposed to be doing. And that is what I expected when I showed up for training. It was frustrating to find out this had not been done.
Anyway, like I said. In the grand scheme of things, it's not the end of the world and may not be all that important to some guys. Just something to throw into the mix of things to consider when bidding.
11-11-2011, 08:16 PM
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Yeah, I know. Please understand I'm not trying to downplay all the changes you guys had to go through. I feel for ya!
But that's one of the things that is so puzzling to me. I'm not sure how to quantify it in terms of percentage, but I wouldn't say that the current DC-9 operation is 95% the same as the MD-88. Nowhere close. (When I finished DC-9 training, I had a 4 page MS word document of discrepancies/standardization issues.) So if they were going to change a bunch of things on the DC-9 from the way NWA did it, why would they change it to yet a third standard instead of changing it to the way Delta does the same thing on the MD-88... or changing the MD-88 to standardize it with the DC-9? When you're trying to accomplish the same exact thing with the same exact system at the same exact airline, it just doesn't make sense to me to do it one way on the DC-9 and do it a different way on the MD-88. Pick the way you think is best, and go with that. I thought that's what they were supposed to be doing. And that is what I expected when I showed up for training. It was frustrating to find out this had not been done.
Anyway, like I said. In the grand scheme of things, it's not the end of the world and may not be all that important to some guys. Just something to throw into the mix of things to consider when bidding.
But that's one of the things that is so puzzling to me. I'm not sure how to quantify it in terms of percentage, but I wouldn't say that the current DC-9 operation is 95% the same as the MD-88. Nowhere close. (When I finished DC-9 training, I had a 4 page MS word document of discrepancies/standardization issues.) So if they were going to change a bunch of things on the DC-9 from the way NWA did it, why would they change it to yet a third standard instead of changing it to the way Delta does the same thing on the MD-88... or changing the MD-88 to standardize it with the DC-9? When you're trying to accomplish the same exact thing with the same exact system at the same exact airline, it just doesn't make sense to me to do it one way on the DC-9 and do it a different way on the MD-88. Pick the way you think is best, and go with that. I thought that's what they were supposed to be doing. And that is what I expected when I showed up for training. It was frustrating to find out this had not been done.
Anyway, like I said. In the grand scheme of things, it's not the end of the world and may not be all that important to some guys. Just something to throw into the mix of things to consider when bidding.
You've just illustrated why SW is the 73N/320 combined fleet captain. It is amazing how manuals written the same way can be interpreted so differently between two training departments... it's slowly coming together though, as PF I can finally touch the MCDU! I still think it's dumb that you can't run the after start checklist before the waveoff. It's "after start," not "before taxi." And.. it's 2 freaking items with only one the captain has to look at it.
For you boeing guys, the airbus is quite scary since it has sesame street colored hydraulic systems. The big bird colored system needs to be powered by the electric system so the oscar the grouch colored system doesn't loudly drive big bird through the PTU. Oh, and the cookie monster system doesn't really play with either of those. Although I swear you can hear the cookie monster saying "cookie cookie cookie cookie" after engine shutdown.
11-11-2011, 08:29 PM
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Yeah, I know. Please understand I'm not trying to downplay all the changes you guys had to go through. I feel for ya!
But that's one of the things that is so puzzling to me. I'm not sure how to quantify it in terms of percentage, but I wouldn't say that the current DC-9 operation is 95% the same as the MD-88. Nowhere close. (When I finished DC-9 training, I had a 4 page MS word document of discrepancies/standardization issues.) So if they were going to change a bunch of things on the DC-9 from the way NWA did it, why would they change it to yet a third standard instead of changing it to the way Delta does the same thing on the MD-88... or changing the MD-88 to standardize it with the DC-9? When you're trying to accomplish the same exact thing with the same exact system at the same exact airline, it just doesn't make sense to me to do it one way on the DC-9 and do it a different way on the MD-88. Pick the way you think is best, and go with that. I thought that's what they were supposed to be doing. And that is what I expected when I showed up for training. It was frustrating to find out this had not been done.
Anyway, like I said. In the grand scheme of things, it's not the end of the world and may not be all that important to some guys. Just something to throw into the mix of things to consider when bidding.
But that's one of the things that is so puzzling to me. I'm not sure how to quantify it in terms of percentage, but I wouldn't say that the current DC-9 operation is 95% the same as the MD-88. Nowhere close. (When I finished DC-9 training, I had a 4 page MS word document of discrepancies/standardization issues.) So if they were going to change a bunch of things on the DC-9 from the way NWA did it, why would they change it to yet a third standard instead of changing it to the way Delta does the same thing on the MD-88... or changing the MD-88 to standardize it with the DC-9? When you're trying to accomplish the same exact thing with the same exact system at the same exact airline, it just doesn't make sense to me to do it one way on the DC-9 and do it a different way on the MD-88. Pick the way you think is best, and go with that. I thought that's what they were supposed to be doing. And that is what I expected when I showed up for training. It was frustrating to find out this had not been done.
Anyway, like I said. In the grand scheme of things, it's not the end of the world and may not be all that important to some guys. Just something to throw into the mix of things to consider when bidding.
At this point, I think factor #1 will be where can I get to and stay a long time. I'll learn anything, anyway they want to teach me. But, I only have so many brain cells left for initial training cycles.
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