Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-10-2011, 06:25 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Every AE seems to generate more angst than the last one. As a long time CVG based pilot who got "downsized" I feel your pain (MEM) and all the rest who are MD's. Let's focus back on the facts. Delta is making money. They are making money in a year where there are numerous excuses to lose money (earthquakes, tornadoes, fuel prices, Martian invasions, etc.) yet they are still making money. They are going to make money next year. They are not going to furlough. They will hire again soon (not as soon as we would like but soon enough). I have worked for Delta when they were financially viable and when they were going (or currently) bankrupt. We are in Plan A. Plan A does not produce the growth we all would hope for but it also is producing consistent profits in dog poop financial conditions. Consistent profits will eventually lead to growth AND better contracts. Don't panic. I have seen Delta as a failing airline and this aint it. Hang in there, it is already getting better, it is just hard to see it sometimes.
11-10-2011, 06:25 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Just speculation but if I were ra. I would pay that now and then if I could get a certain hub from AMR in ch11 I would buy it close a few of our bases. Two heartland hubs and the four corner posts.
I saw the early payoff and came to the conclusion you did. MSP and DTW are too close together. So are CVG ATL and NYC.
SLC is too close to SEA.
Fwiw that is not rumor just crazy speculation!
I saw the early payoff and came to the conclusion you did. MSP and DTW are too close together. So are CVG ATL and NYC.
SLC is too close to SEA.
Fwiw that is not rumor just crazy speculation!
ACL;
WRT AA ch11. I've been thinking a lot about this. I don't think its going to happen. AA played this game before and extracted major long term concessions from the employees...and averted BK.
The same thing seems to be going on today. AA's retirements will be frozen in this contract and from here on, they will be a 401k airline. No BK is how I see it...stock pickers, take that for what its worth.
11-10-2011, 06:28 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,049
I'm concerned that the big "wave" of hiring everyone is counting on could mostly or completely bypass Delta. We will be out there past where the waves break, bobbing on our little surfboard while guys at other places catch the monsters and end up WAY out in front of us. Think about it...
One scenario: company gives another little bit of flying to AS. ALPA and MGT: it's nothing, just .5% of our flying and plus it helps us make money. Company finds a way to end around the AF JV restrictions. DALPA and MGT: don't worry, they are only out of compliance by 1%...we will give them a break for now because we are actually making money. Company pulls back flying by another 1% YOY like in this AE. ALPA and MGT: well we have to do this. This is a bad economy and look how high fuel prices are. Company replaces a few more 88/90 routes with the big RJs they already have. ALPA and MGT: don't be concerned, it's only .5% of our flying, and plus look at all the 50 seaters we are parking!
Well, none of those sound too horrible, but add up those block hour cuts. 12,000 x (.5% + 1% + 1% + .5%) = 360 pilots not needed in a year. And how many retirements do we have coming, on average? I bet a the next 5+ years (maybe even 10) would average to around 360. So I don't put too much stock in the consolation "it'll happen soon enough, and once they start hiring they won't be able to stop."
"Show me the money" is great, but you damn well better show me an iron-clad scope wallet to put that money in. We gained a little stock in the merger, but I guarantee we lost much, much more than that in $ and in QOL as we have stagnated and slipped backwards.
One scenario: company gives another little bit of flying to AS. ALPA and MGT: it's nothing, just .5% of our flying and plus it helps us make money. Company finds a way to end around the AF JV restrictions. DALPA and MGT: don't worry, they are only out of compliance by 1%...we will give them a break for now because we are actually making money. Company pulls back flying by another 1% YOY like in this AE. ALPA and MGT: well we have to do this. This is a bad economy and look how high fuel prices are. Company replaces a few more 88/90 routes with the big RJs they already have. ALPA and MGT: don't be concerned, it's only .5% of our flying, and plus look at all the 50 seaters we are parking!
Well, none of those sound too horrible, but add up those block hour cuts. 12,000 x (.5% + 1% + 1% + .5%) = 360 pilots not needed in a year. And how many retirements do we have coming, on average? I bet a the next 5+ years (maybe even 10) would average to around 360. So I don't put too much stock in the consolation "it'll happen soon enough, and once they start hiring they won't be able to stop."
"Show me the money" is great, but you damn well better show me an iron-clad scope wallet to put that money in. We gained a little stock in the merger, but I guarantee we lost much, much more than that in $ and in QOL as we have stagnated and slipped backwards.
11-10-2011, 06:29 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
ACL;
WRT AA ch11. I've been thinking a lot about this. I don't think its going to happen. AA played this game before and extracted major long term concessions from the employees...and averted BK.
The same thing seems to be going on today. AA's retirements will be frozen in this contract and from here on, they will be a 401k airline. No BK is how I see it...stock pickers, take that for what its worth.
WRT AA ch11. I've been thinking a lot about this. I don't think its going to happen. AA played this game before and extracted major long term concessions from the employees...and averted BK.
The same thing seems to be going on today. AA's retirements will be frozen in this contract and from here on, they will be a 401k airline. No BK is how I see it...stock pickers, take that for what its worth.
I will tell you that even freezing the pensions is probably not enough.
11-10-2011, 06:38 AM
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
They were making over $230K for Captains and $140K for F/O's, averaging 12 working days per month (ACL's "holes in their contract" and all) long before they acquired AirTran. So I don't think their "newly stolen seniority" is relevant to what I said.
But maybe the SWA pilots should dump SWAPA and hire ALPA. I mean, when you're by far the best compensated airline pilots in the country and you get to do all your own flying, wouldn't you want the largest, most experienced union representing you? (we need an emoticon for "dripping with sarcasm." )
But maybe the SWA pilots should dump SWAPA and hire ALPA. I mean, when you're by far the best compensated airline pilots in the country and you get to do all your own flying, wouldn't you want the largest, most experienced union representing you?
(we need an emoticon for "dripping with sarcasm." )
11-10-2011, 06:50 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Going from 48 hr layovers to 24 hr layovers usually means a change to daily service from less than daily service. While it's not as enjoyable for the pilots, it usually equates to more flying.
11-10-2011, 07:01 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
DXB going to 24 may not be more enjoyable for pilots, but it definitely is more enjoyable for livers.
11-10-2011, 07:06 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
I think all commuters want is some balance as the company makes more and more commuters. No paid move equals how many hotels or positive space passes? I know, someone is going to point out that I could get commuter good deals for awhile and then take a paid move and then round and round we go.
As I've said before, commuters save the company a ton of dough by not having to move us every time they move flying around. We are their key to flexibility as they know most of us will just follow the flying from where ever we live. Add to that a closed base or two..........
The company can't have it both ways. If they are going to generate commuters they need to become a more commuter friendly airline.
Shoot, as a start I'd be happy with being able to use my seniority on DCI
Ferd
11-10-2011, 07:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Has anyone else heard this? If true, MSP should be around for a while.
Last edited by CVG767A; 11-10-2011 at 07:25 AM.
11-10-2011, 07:10 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
The UAE, middle east light.......
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
