Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-07-2011, 07:47 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Were people from the peanut gallery holding their feet to the fire WRT our (previously/currently defended) scope situation?
Was the general vibe more SWA+ in all areas, or just a few percent followed by partial COLA all rolled into a lie and called a "raise over the life of"?
11-07-2011, 08:36 PM
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Lets start a pool - How long until we are down to 10,000 Pilots? On second thought maybe there is a silver lining in this cloud - If we keep shrinking its only a matter of time before we can apply for protection under the endangered species act!
We can even help marketing - Would you pay a few dollars more to help the double breasted, always crowned, flying mainline pilot? At their glorious peak they freely roamed throughout the USA including Alaska, and Hawaii with offshoots establishing a temporary habitation in Europe in the early 1990's.
Recently however times have been tough on the double breasted always crowned mainline Pilot. After hitting an apogee in the year 2000 the double breasted has been in decline and slowly retreating with only the native breeding grounds of Atlanta GA, and Southeastern Michigan still flourishing.
After the introduction of a non-indigenous species into the habitat - the spiked hair, backpack wearing RJ Pilot - the double breasted has been suffering a terrible population slide. Add to that predatory competition from the Alaskan bearded lady aviator and well, lets just say its been a tough decade for the 'ole double breasted.
Scoop - Watching too much Discovery Channel
We can even help marketing - Would you pay a few dollars more to help the double breasted, always crowned, flying mainline pilot? At their glorious peak they freely roamed throughout the USA including Alaska, and Hawaii with offshoots establishing a temporary habitation in Europe in the early 1990's.
Recently however times have been tough on the double breasted always crowned mainline Pilot. After hitting an apogee in the year 2000 the double breasted has been in decline and slowly retreating with only the native breeding grounds of Atlanta GA, and Southeastern Michigan still flourishing.
After the introduction of a non-indigenous species into the habitat - the spiked hair, backpack wearing RJ Pilot - the double breasted has been suffering a terrible population slide. Add to that predatory competition from the Alaskan bearded lady aviator and well, lets just say its been a tough decade for the 'ole double breasted.
Scoop - Watching too much Discovery Channel
That
Was
Awesome
And so true
Cheers
George
11-07-2011, 09:16 PM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Lets start a pool - How long until we are down to 10,000 Pilots? On second thought maybe there is a silver lining in this cloud - If we keep shrinking its only a matter of time before we can apply for protection under the endangered species act!
We can even help marketing - Would you pay a few dollars more to help the double breasted, always crowned, flying mainline pilot? At their glorious peak they freely roamed throughout the USA including Alaska, and Hawaii with offshoots establishing a temporary habitation in Europe in the early 1990's.
Recently however times have been tough on the double breasted always crowned mainline Pilot. After hitting an apogee in the year 2000 the double breasted has been in decline and slowly retreating with only the native breeding grounds of Atlanta GA, and Southeastern Michigan still flourishing.
After the introduction of a non-indigenous species into the habitat - the spiked hair, backpack wearing RJ Pilot - the double breasted has been suffering a terrible population slide. Add to that predatory competition from the Alaskan bearded lady aviator and well, lets just say its been a tough decade for the 'ole double breasted.
Scoop - Watching too much Discovery Channel
We can even help marketing - Would you pay a few dollars more to help the double breasted, always crowned, flying mainline pilot? At their glorious peak they freely roamed throughout the USA including Alaska, and Hawaii with offshoots establishing a temporary habitation in Europe in the early 1990's.
Recently however times have been tough on the double breasted always crowned mainline Pilot. After hitting an apogee in the year 2000 the double breasted has been in decline and slowly retreating with only the native breeding grounds of Atlanta GA, and Southeastern Michigan still flourishing.
After the introduction of a non-indigenous species into the habitat - the spiked hair, backpack wearing RJ Pilot - the double breasted has been suffering a terrible population slide. Add to that predatory competition from the Alaskan bearded lady aviator and well, lets just say its been a tough decade for the 'ole double breasted.
Scoop - Watching too much Discovery Channel
Nicely done sir!
Carl
11-07-2011, 09:23 PM
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Are you sure my timing is off? Here's how I came up with a two year delay:
1) Six months for the NMB to call for an election and the results to be determined.
2) Assuming DPA wins, six more months for DPA to conduct fair and balanced elections to fill the slate of local and national officers, as well as staff all the committees
3) Once the officers are in, it will take another six months to develop and then survey the pilot group and figure out what they want, based on the DPA survey
4) Once those results are known, another six months to craft an opener.
Frankly, I think those are best case times - so two years is probably optimistic. Meanwhile, the rest of us tread water and watch the world go by living under "status quo" conditions.
No thanks.
1) Six months for the NMB to call for an election and the results to be determined.
2) Assuming DPA wins, six more months for DPA to conduct fair and balanced elections to fill the slate of local and national officers, as well as staff all the committees
3) Once the officers are in, it will take another six months to develop and then survey the pilot group and figure out what they want, based on the DPA survey
4) Once those results are known, another six months to craft an opener.
Frankly, I think those are best case times - so two years is probably optimistic. Meanwhile, the rest of us tread water and watch the world go by living under "status quo" conditions.
No thanks.
"We are always in the middle of Section 6 negotiations. Whatever time you think it might take for a non-ALPA union to begin at Delta, always characterize it in the context of being in the middle of Section 6 negotiations."
Carl
11-07-2011, 09:48 PM
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I honestly don't see what you're talking about. I'm sure some of it is that I agree with most of what Carl says. But I just don't see the "questionable delivery" you're talking about. What I do see is a lot of very good points, mostly backed up with facts, offered without apology. Sometimes the truth hurts. And after all the personal attacks I've seen levied against Carl, I can certainly see why he might not be inclined to put a lot of effort into sugarcoating his arguments.
Hoser, try to look at it as objectively as you can. If you do that, I think you'll see a heck of a lot more attacks on Carl than by Carl.
Hoser, try to look at it as objectively as you can. If you do that, I think you'll see a heck of a lot more attacks on Carl than by Carl.
I'm amazed at how smart guys can excuse our unions lawyers who: tried to bust their own union, get fined and sanctioned for lying about an opposing attorney, and write our scope section that they themselves say is so weak they can't defend it. They excuse it and refuse to talk about it. Yet they are obsessed with Lee Seham's firm and focus on those lawyers to the exclusion of ALPA lawyers. Its a good lesson to see how easy it is for a con-man to operate. All you need to do to con smart people is to get them to temporarily ignore evidence that is right before their eyes.
Carl
11-07-2011, 09:51 PM
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11-07-2011, 09:59 PM
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The length of PG's timetable may be a little long.
The idea that disrupting the entire negotiations process for an extended period of time in the middle of a critical Sect. 6 is correct.
If it doesn't worry you, that is a problem.
If you are not concerned about USAPA, SWAPA, APA, etc. problems with the Seham Law firm, that is a problem too.
The idea that disrupting the entire negotiations process for an extended period of time in the middle of a critical Sect. 6 is correct.
If it doesn't worry you, that is a problem.
If you are not concerned about USAPA, SWAPA, APA, etc. problems with the Seham Law firm, that is a problem too.
"Ensure you always equate a union drive with disrupting negotiations for an unspecified period of time (the longer the better to instill greater fear). If anyone calls you out on this as untrue, immediately start talking about the Seham law firm that the DPA is using to decertify our beloved union."
Carl
11-08-2011, 02:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
and
More typical insults from Carl as he attacks the poster rather than debates the merit.
Hoserpilot, your advice was good, but it fell on deaf ears...
More typical insults from Carl as he attacks the poster rather than debates the merit.
Hoserpilot, your advice was good, but it fell on deaf ears...
11-08-2011, 03:01 AM
Senior by choice
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 427
I honestly don't see what you're talking about. I'm sure some of it is that I agree with most of what Carl says. But I just don't see the "questionable delivery" you're talking about. What I do see is a lot of very good points, mostly backed up with facts, offered without apology. Sometimes the truth hurts. And after all the personal attacks I've seen levied against Carl, I can certainly see why he might not be inclined to put a lot of effort into sugarcoating his arguments.
Hoser, try to look at it as objectively as you can. If you do that, I think you'll see a heck of a lot more attacks on Carl than by Carl.
Hoser, try to look at it as objectively as you can. If you do that, I think you'll see a heck of a lot more attacks on Carl than by Carl.
I think if you'll go back and look this has always been Carl's approach, insult and belittle any one who has a different opinion or disagrees with him. All the way back from the beginning of the merger he has been the one who will never consider another's viewpoint, it's his way or the highway. You have to give him credit for being consistent just wouldn't want to fly with him.
11-08-2011, 03:15 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Was the general vibe more SWA+ in all areas, or just a few percent followed by partial COLA all rolled into a lie and called a "raise over the life of"?
Overall the meeting was well attended, pilots were demanding SCOPE, PAY and WORK RULE changes. The mood was no where near a status quo raise. A few reps asked for input wrt to a position they though we should take, and they got that input yesterday.
I was quite happy to see, in my estimation over 60 pilots there.
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