iaflyer

Let me guess, a turn for them.

Flew with a NYC crew - not only was there more conversation in the van to the airport than I have on the entire flight with some crews but the senior FA was 3.5 years.

Waves

That's what I was saying before. If they had a complete center hyd failure coupled with an electrical failure powering that hydraulic valve, then that would explain this scenario. Other than just completely screwing the pooch, that is the only way I can come up with a plausible explanation. I wonder if there is a circuit breaker associated with that valve. Next time I fly a 767, I'm going to look for one. I doubt there is one, but wouldn't that suck for them if they missed a pulled CB which caused that valve to close? Ooooooops

boog123

She was probably thinking, "why is this old guy even talking to me, creeper!"

Bill Lumberg

Stricken Polish Boeing made flawless landing
Pilot of stricken Polish Boeing wins praise for flawless execution of emergency landing
By Slobodan Lekic, AP Aviation Writer
Wednesday November 2, 2011

BRUSSELS (AP) -- It was the end of a long-haul passenger flight from Newark, New Jersey, and the Polish LOT Airlines Boeing 767 was about to land in Warsaw.

But the pilots had a problem: The plane's hydraulic system had failed a half-hour into the flight. Now the landing gear would not deploy. None of it -- not the nose gear nor the wheel assemblies under the wings.

With 231 people aboard a wheel-less aircraft weighing nearly 90 tons what's a pilot to do?

The answer: Do everything exactly as you would if you were landing with the gear down -- only make sure you execute to perfection.

That is just what Tadeusz Wrona, the captain of the LOT aircraft appears to have done Tuesday, according to pilots who have flown this type of plane.

Not only did Wrona prevent any injuries to passengers and crew, but he landed the aircraft on its belly so smoothly that many on board thought it had landed on its wheels. The plane apparently suffered no structural damage.

And Wrona became an instant hero. "Fly like an eagle, land like a crow," his newfound Facebook fans said -- punning on the pilot's name, which means crow in Polish.

"This was a testament to the crew's training, professionalism and preparedness (but) from a pilot's perspective, for most intents and purposes you're making a normal landing until the plane actually touches the runway," said Patrick Smith, a Boston-based airline pilot who flies a Boeing 767-300, the same type involved in Tuesday's incident.

A failure to deploy of all three sections of the undercarriage -- the nose gear and the two main underwing gears -- is rare but not unheard of in civil aviation.

There have been several incidents in the past decade where one of the assemblies could not be lowered. But in 2008, a Boeing 737 executed a belly landing at Kaliningrad airport in Russia after it suffered a total undercarriage failure. There were no casualties among the 144 passengers and crew, but in that case the aircraft sustained serious damage.

On the 767 in Tuesday's incident, the main hydraulic system handles the retraction and extension of the undercarriage, while electric motors control the opening and closing of the gear doors. For the main and nose gears to have failed to lower, either or both may have malfunctioned, in addition to a manual backup system that relies on gravity.

Normally when only one of the gears fails to deploy, the pilots will try to keep the plane balanced on the other two after touching down, while waiting for the speed to fall off. This allows them to keep directional control until almost the very end of the landing roll. But that was not an option for Wrona, meaning he would be incapable of affecting the plane's direction after it set down on the tarmac.

LOT said the plane suffered "a central hydraulic system failure" about half an hour after leaving Newark. The decision was made to continue to Warsaw's Frederic Chopin airport, apparently in order to use up the heavy fuel load supplied for the trans-Atlantic flight. The 767 can only dump fuel from its central tank with no such possibility for the wing tanks; the pilots would likely have been concerned about a possible fire breaking out if they landed with too much fuel still on board.

Rare as total undercarriage failure is, pilots regularly train on simulators to execute this emergency procedure.

Air traffic control services also prepare for such landings, giving absolute priority to the flight, dispatching the fire brigade and medical services and foaming the runway to prevent a fire. Those procedures are universal, and set by the UN civil aviation organization.

"Landing gear failures make for great TV, but from a pilot's perspective they're pretty far down the list of things that can result in a disaster," said Smith.

Still, Wrona had to maneuver within constraints on both his final approach, determined by the glide path set by the airport's instrument landing system, and the aircraft's exact speed, which depends on the its weight but is normally around 150 miles (240 kilometers)per hour.

He succeeded in keeping the wings perfectly horizontal, touching down gingerly with the tail skid and gradually setting the jet's low-hanging engines onto the runway, which had been soaked with flame retardant to lower the fire risk.

Had one of the wingtips dropped at touchdown as sometimes happens in a strong crosswind, there was a risk that the landing would have ended in disaster rather than an uneventful slide down the runway.

"The crew did a fantastic job, they kept the wings level for a very smooth touchdown," said Kevin Hiatt, a former international chief pilot for Delta Air Lines who is now executive vice president of the Flight Safety Foundation.

"They thus avoided having one of the engines hitting the ground before the other and possibly getting the plane to go into a cartwheel situation which could have resulted in a fireball," said Hiatt, who flew 767s for seven years.

Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski thanked the crew and emergency workers "in the name of Poland," and said the government would decorate them for the feat. And more than 40,000 people congratulated Wrona on newly created Facebook fan pages, calling him Poland's "superhero."

Wrona has also been compared to Capt. Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger, who landed a crippled US Airways Airbus A320 in the Hudson River in 2009, saving saved 155 lives.

But Hiatt noted that Wrona's feat could not be compared with the "Miracle on the Hudson."

Wrona landed a fully operational plane at an international airport where fire and rescue services were waiting. In contrast, Sullenberger had no power after a flock of geese disabled the engine, was forced to ditch in the Hudson, then waited for local boats to rescue passengers and crew from the wings.

"The Polish pilots had control over their descent and touchdown, while Sully had essentially a glider on his hands," Hiatt said.

Check Essential

Wow. Yet more 'splainin to do.

Do you head out onto the tracks after losing the center hydraulic system? ETOPS w/o a hyd generator?
I can certainly understand dumping and burning fuel before landing but do you go over the big water?
Maybe you do, but only if you know EXACTLY what failed and that it can't get any worse. That doesn't seem to be the case here. Failure of center hydraulics alone should not have prevented gear extension.

I'm with Waves. The media might already have this crew portrayed as heroes but professional airline pilots are gonna need some more facts before reaching that conclusion. Something's not right here.

scambo1

Would the loss of the center system caused by a leak in the reservoir below the standpipe change your pooch screwing scenario?

gloopy

Creeper's gonna creep.

But then we mentioned we were pilots and she was all like "OMG that is so kewel!"

sailingfun

Yes, A loss of the center system causes a loss of a critical etops component the HMG. It also presents all kinds of other issues from fumes to fire to what happens if you had to divert for another reason such as a additional mechanical or medical. The FAA is going to have a lot of questions. The good news is the positive press will help the crew.

Waves

@Bill Lumberg: Bill this blowin smoke article has several flaws to begin with. The first articles put out had them four hours into flight when the center hydraulic system failed. This would put them past the mid point on the Oceanic Tracks. A decision to continue to destination from that point is somewhat understandable, but to continue to destination after only an hour and a half airborne would have been highly risky and a bad decision. I doubt that is when they had the failure. Secondly, the landing gear AND the gear doors are hydraulically controlled, not electrically controlled. The only electric motors involved with the gear doors are during the Alternate Gear Extension System activation. This switch uses an electric motor to trip the locking mechanism for each gear and releases all door and gear uplocks and the landing gear free fall to the down and locked position. Thirdly, the article incorrectly states: “For the main and nose gears to have failed to lower, either or both may have malfunctioned.” Each landing gear truck is mechanically independent so all three would have to fail at the same time. Fourthly the article states: “Rare as total undercarriage failure is, pilots regularly train on simulators to execute this emergency procedure.” This is a false statement as well. We don’t train for belly landings. Fifthly, the article states: “touching down gingerly with the tail skid.” It’s difficult to determine if the tail skid is actually down or not, but since it can only be extended with center hydraulic system pressure, how did it come down? Who knows, that may be a key element. It may have just been residual pressure.

Waves

Unfortunately not at all. Center Hydraulics is not needed whatsoever to lower the gear. The Alternate Gear Extension system doesn't require hydraulics, just electrical power. Electrical power is needed to hold open the hydraulic shuttle valve for lowering the gear normally using center hydraulics pressure and electrical power is needed for the electric motors to operate the door and gear uplocks when using the Alternate Extension System. We have already determined they had electrical power, so why weren't the gear lowered using the Alternate method? It's possible that the pooch got screwed, but I can't say that with 100% certainty. I also say it's a bit premature for the media to call them hero's, but hey, our profession could use a few more hero's to improve how the media view us. They have already forgotten the time I was in Macho Grande! LMAO