Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-26-2011, 10:12 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Because there months.. few and far between mind you.. where I can hold a regular line. And it is a crap line, but as on old timer once told me, "The worst regular line is better than the best reserve line". I hold this to be true. Now.. if reserve were to actually recognize seniority, I might be interested.. but I doubt it because the categories will be manned so thin that you are sitting 10 SCs/month etc etc etc... Reserve, no matter how it is structured, should NOT suck. It currently does. IF the company has to hire more guys to cover a system that recognizes seniority, so be it.
10-26-2011, 10:16 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I realize you didn't ask me, but I like the ability to be able to bid down to reserve on months that I don't want to fly as much or absolutely need some specific days off. I'm former Northwest, and the only plus I saw to the separate category system was that if you happened to be on the bubble of lineholder vs. reserve and if you were a commuter (a very small percentage of the pilot group), you didn't have to wonder from month to month whether you were going to be a lineholder or need a place in base to sit reserve. Other than that one small benefit, it is a negative for the rest of the pilot group in terms of flexibility.
Sorry T. Didn't intend to answer for you.
Sorry T. Didn't intend to answer for you.
We are kind of on the same page, except as a sometimes bubble guy, I like the possibility of holding a regular line. I don't want to be pigeonholed into reserve when I could be flying LAX all nighters on MY schedule.
10-26-2011, 10:39 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 73N CA
Posts: 474
Nice post Scoop.
The TLV is 72-82 hours. I think a guarantee of 77, right in the middle, would work nicely. I also like the idea of SC essentially getting some type of premium credit. My other suggestion is for long call to be a 24 hour call out. Most of the time I'm assigned a trip on LC, it usually is. Cover everything else with SC. I personally would be willing to go back to 8 SC periods if LC became a 24 hour call out. I caveat that with the fact that I'm a commuter, and I can't sit LC at home.
My next suggestion is to assign SC 2 days prior, not prior to 1500 the day prior. This too, would help mitigate issues with commuting.
Finally, I favor two separate systems. RES/Line Holder. This is simply for the fact that there is absolutely no chance for any quality of life for the bottom feeders at the company. Right now, at least if a senior guy bids down to reserve, the junior guys are somewhat protected from outright abuse by the RAW system. I think the only way to make that better would be to eliminate the number of days available in the criteria. That way, the lowest RAW score, regardless of number of days available, gets the assignment.
I would probably favor the current system with some tweeking, and seniority in the RES system, if the average days worked on RES each month, were the same as the average number of days worked as a line holder. This currently is not the case. Introducing seniority to the system as it stands now would mean that line holders bid down during the holidays, and junior guys work 70+ hours for the month, and all of those hours are on the weekends and holidays btw.
Now, if bringing in seniority to the reserve system means that you get an advantage for YS purposes, I have no issue with that. But to use it to deny an assignment so that it goes to a junior who has a much higher RAW score, not so much.
We work in a seniority based system...I understand this, and as such am humbly standing by for my lashing! It would, however, be nice to be able to have a little bit of seniority in the worst category within the DAL system, which is reserve.
The TLV is 72-82 hours. I think a guarantee of 77, right in the middle, would work nicely. I also like the idea of SC essentially getting some type of premium credit. My other suggestion is for long call to be a 24 hour call out. Most of the time I'm assigned a trip on LC, it usually is. Cover everything else with SC. I personally would be willing to go back to 8 SC periods if LC became a 24 hour call out. I caveat that with the fact that I'm a commuter, and I can't sit LC at home.
My next suggestion is to assign SC 2 days prior, not prior to 1500 the day prior. This too, would help mitigate issues with commuting.
Finally, I favor two separate systems. RES/Line Holder. This is simply for the fact that there is absolutely no chance for any quality of life for the bottom feeders at the company. Right now, at least if a senior guy bids down to reserve, the junior guys are somewhat protected from outright abuse by the RAW system. I think the only way to make that better would be to eliminate the number of days available in the criteria. That way, the lowest RAW score, regardless of number of days available, gets the assignment.
I would probably favor the current system with some tweeking, and seniority in the RES system, if the average days worked on RES each month, were the same as the average number of days worked as a line holder. This currently is not the case. Introducing seniority to the system as it stands now would mean that line holders bid down during the holidays, and junior guys work 70+ hours for the month, and all of those hours are on the weekends and holidays btw.
Now, if bringing in seniority to the reserve system means that you get an advantage for YS purposes, I have no issue with that. But to use it to deny an assignment so that it goes to a junior who has a much higher RAW score, not so much.
We work in a seniority based system...I understand this, and as such am humbly standing by for my lashing! It would, however, be nice to be able to have a little bit of seniority in the worst category within the DAL system, which is reserve.
Last edited by Rhino Driver; 10-26-2011 at 10:53 AM.
10-26-2011, 11:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
I realize you didn't ask me, but I like the ability to be able to bid down to reserve on months that I don't want to fly as much or absolutely need some specific days off. I'm former Northwest, and the only plus I saw to the separate category system was that if you happened to be on the bubble of lineholder vs. reserve and if you were a commuter (a very small percentage of the pilot group), you didn't have to wonder from month to month whether you were going to be a lineholder or need a place in base to sit reserve. Other than that one small benefit, it is a negative for the rest of the pilot group in terms of flexibility.
Sorry T. Didn't intend to answer for you.
Sorry T. Didn't intend to answer for you.
10-26-2011, 11:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B-7ER JFK
Posts: 931
First, very bad sign that the union has to extend the deadline...seriously? Second, we are a cash business...let's break our pay paradigm and get a per cent of the gross. Let's be a true cost of doing business like all the other vendors (boeing, airbus, ge, catering, etc.).
Now as far as the survey, from a 24yr 767 captain:
1. Significant reduction in scoped out flying, without it nothing else matters.
2. 40% day one. 5%/yr til next contract is signed.
3. 6hr/calendar day for all work events. i.e. fly, dh only day, suit up pay, layover only day, initial qual, cq, vacation day, everything is 6hr/calendar day!
4. 75hr guarantee reg/res.
5. Reg/res get paid the same on same rotation.
6. Return seniority to res. If it requires more pilots, so be it.
7. 23k goes to bottom of 23n & 23o coverage ladders. Also, must return within 4hrs domestic/ 6hrs int'l or midnight, whichever is EARLIER.
8. 401k filled to 415c limits by the company. In addition, for every dollar that goes in the north retirement fund for the select few, a dollar goes into a fund for the north/south guys that are not a part of this benefit.
9. Sick leave/ disability back to C2K.
10. Medical/Dental premiums/co-pays greatly reduced.
11. Eliminate agency shop...a line puke's only way to maintain a true check & balance on the union.
12. Stop signing NDAs...we are a public company...most information is readily availabe...NDAs promote the "trust me, I've got a secret, but I can't tell you" that greatly increases the mistrust from the line.
13. The union must stop accepting pay from the company...complete conflict of interest...I will gladly pay dues to cover our costs.
I am willing to massage these a "little", but not much.
These are my thoughts...not a personal attack on anyone/anything.
Good luck to us all.
Now as far as the survey, from a 24yr 767 captain:
1. Significant reduction in scoped out flying, without it nothing else matters.
2. 40% day one. 5%/yr til next contract is signed.
3. 6hr/calendar day for all work events. i.e. fly, dh only day, suit up pay, layover only day, initial qual, cq, vacation day, everything is 6hr/calendar day!
4. 75hr guarantee reg/res.
5. Reg/res get paid the same on same rotation.
6. Return seniority to res. If it requires more pilots, so be it.
7. 23k goes to bottom of 23n & 23o coverage ladders. Also, must return within 4hrs domestic/ 6hrs int'l or midnight, whichever is EARLIER.
8. 401k filled to 415c limits by the company. In addition, for every dollar that goes in the north retirement fund for the select few, a dollar goes into a fund for the north/south guys that are not a part of this benefit.
9. Sick leave/ disability back to C2K.
10. Medical/Dental premiums/co-pays greatly reduced.
11. Eliminate agency shop...a line puke's only way to maintain a true check & balance on the union.
12. Stop signing NDAs...we are a public company...most information is readily availabe...NDAs promote the "trust me, I've got a secret, but I can't tell you" that greatly increases the mistrust from the line.
13. The union must stop accepting pay from the company...complete conflict of interest...I will gladly pay dues to cover our costs.
I am willing to massage these a "little", but not much.
These are my thoughts...not a personal attack on anyone/anything.
Good luck to us all.
I belive one of the few main reasons for guys NOT to do the survey is their complete distrust in the union, they are too busy with their second job that they need to support their family, and some of us are busy looking for other work that pays the bills..
For clarity sake, I did the survey.
10-26-2011, 11:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
As a fellow commuter, I think I could convince you of the logic with the separate system after a beer or so. If you are a bottom line holder, you are always a bottom line holder.....they can only displace you to reserve based on what you have bid. I ALWAYS had line holder (even if in another base or jet) to reserve.
But, its a moot point. Without the other two pieces to the puzzle, temping and monthly AEs......what we are doing now is the only way if you also want to give the non commuters any kind of flexibility.
Ferd
10-26-2011, 11:52 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Actually, based on what you just said, I think you are more on board with the other way. I was going to ask the same question as ice, but I was on my phone etc etc.
As a fellow commuter, I think you would see the logic in the separate system after a beer or so. If you are a bottom line holder, you are always a bottom line holder.....they can only displace you to reserve based on what you have bid. I ALWAYS had line holder (even if in another base or jet) to reserve.
But, its a moot point. Without the other two pieces to the puzzle, temping and monthly AEs......what we are doing now is the only way if you also want to give the non commuters any kind of flexibility.
Ferd
As a fellow commuter, I think you would see the logic in the separate system after a beer or so. If you are a bottom line holder, you are always a bottom line holder.....they can only displace you to reserve based on what you have bid. I ALWAYS had line holder (even if in another base or jet) to reserve.
But, its a moot point. Without the other two pieces to the puzzle, temping and monthly AEs......what we are doing now is the only way if you also want to give the non commuters any kind of flexibility.
Ferd
10-26-2011, 11:55 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Ok, maybe, but I'm not convinced you are seeing my suggestion.
Beers, I need beers, a pen and a napkin.
Ferd
Beers, I need beers, a pen and a napkin.
Ferd
10-26-2011, 12:04 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 581
10-26-2011, 12:18 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: B744 F/O
Posts: 141
Uh, no. I am not interested in being stuck in reserve. I can't be a regular lineholder at this point with any consistency, but occasionally I can hold it.. and that is good. If I had to bid all reserve all the time or bid out, I wouldn't like that choice. I don't know what temping was, and as far as the monthly AE thing, I have no real opinion.
Maybe I can help. As one who was "stuck" on reserve. You would put a card in (electronically) for position as a temporary block holder. If the company needed more, presto, you became a blockholder for the month. It would happen prior to monthly bidding and you participated just like permanent blockholders. I was able to hold a temp block for up to 6 months out of the year this way.
Jim
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