Originally Posted by LivingTheDream

First, very bad sign that the union has to extend the deadline...seriously? Second, we are a cash business...let's break our pay paradigm and get a per cent of the gross. Let's be a true cost of doing business like all the other vendors (boeing, airbus, ge, catering, etc.).

Now as far as the survey, from a 24yr 767 captain:

1. Significant reduction in scoped out flying, without it nothing else matters.

2. 40% day one. 5%/yr til next contract is signed.

3. 6hr/calendar day for all work events. i.e. fly, dh only day, suit up pay, layover only day, initial qual, cq, vacation day, everything is 6hr/calendar day!

4. 75hr guarantee reg/res.

5. Reg/res get paid the same on same rotation.

6. Return seniority to res. If it requires more pilots, so be it.

7. 23k goes to bottom of 23n & 23o coverage ladders. Also, must return within 4hrs domestic/ 6hrs int'l or midnight, whichever is EARLIER.

8. 401k filled to 415c limits by the company. In addition, for every dollar that goes in the north retirement fund for the select few, a dollar goes into a fund for the north/south guys that are not a part of this benefit.

9. Sick leave/ disability back to C2K.

10. Medical/Dental premiums/co-pays greatly reduced.

11. Eliminate agency shop...a line puke's only way to maintain a true check & balance on the union.

12. Stop signing NDAs...we are a public company...most information is readily availabe...NDAs promote the "trust me, I've got a secret, but I can't tell you" that greatly increases the mistrust from the line.

13. The union must stop accepting pay from the company...complete conflict of interest...I will gladly pay dues to cover our costs.

I am willing to massage these a "little", but not much.

These are my thoughts...not a personal attack on anyone/anything.

Good luck to us all.

Originally Posted by LuvJockey

Sorry to butt into the Delta thread, but I'll make it quick. The $166,000 average salary that keeps getting quoted here is incorrect. The MIT website has made a gross error in their calculations. If you look at 2009, it says that average SWA pilot pay was $176,000 and dropped to $166,000 in 2010. That is simply not correct.

There seems to be an error in the total number of pilots at SWA. Their charts show a sudden jump of 5.2 crews per aircraft to 5.9 from 2009 to 2010. That number is not correct. MIT shows that SWA hired around 800 pilots in 2010, making their calculations wildly inaccurate. Actual number of pilots hired in 2010 was zero.

If you compare the total cockpit cost per block hour for narrowbody equipment, SWA cockpit cost per hour rose from $630 to $691. SWA's scheduling practices and contract did not change appreciably in 2010 other than a pay rate increase. To compare, Delta currently shows $552 total cost per hour for 2010.

Anyway, the $166,000 average salary figure is not correct. If you use the correct number of pilots, the average SWA salary is actually well above $186,000 per year. My past history of Delta bashing aside, that is the real info.

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...0EQUIPMENT.htm

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

As we have outsourced our work, our bargaining leverage has decreased. We now represent maybe half of Delta's productive capacity. When we come to the table with half the leverage we used to enjoy, we can expect diminished results.

In the past decade scope has been a leading indicator.

Our current MEC holds the hope to turn things around.

Originally Posted by LeineLodge

This defeatist, poor-me mentality is exactly what's going to get us a crappy contract. We need to stop moping and blaming someone else for what's gone wrong in the past decade. ALPA certainly had a hand in it, but there were quite a few outside forces influencing the process as well.

Now we finally have an opportunity to alter our course, and a large portion of the pilot group can't even be bothered to spend a few minutes filling out a survey!

The company is making money hand over fist and knows that we expect significant recognition in this next contract. If we're too weak, stupid or lazy to ask for it then we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. The laundry list of BS reasons for not getting on board and pulling in the same direction is just that, BS.

Even if you're the staunchest DPA supporter out there, hedge your bets. Continue to provide at least the minimum required participation (like filling out WHAT YOU WANT) while trying to create a better alternative union. I'm fine with that, but don't just give up. For better or worse, our cart is tied to ALPA for now, and our success and paychecks will depend on how well ALPA can do. You never know, they may actually achieve the unthinkable (in the DPA crowd's vision) and help us negotiate an industry leading contract. One thing is for certain though: Without some minimum participation from the pilot group, ALPA will not have the leverage to achieve what guys supposedly want (but apparently aren't willing to get off the couch for.)


**This rant was in no way directed at you 88. I admire your continuous beating of the restoration drum and just happpened to quote your post that was referencing the rampant apathy.

Originally Posted by scambo1

I can / will never drink free shots of yeager coupled to a heineken all night long. Nothing good can/ did possibly come of it.

No I will not go into details...bad, just bad.

Originally Posted by DeadHead

Not to get too into what I was pushing for, but here's where I sat.

*I think 5% over 5 years with a minimum of 5 encouraging phone calls, meetings, or commendations each quarter from an upper level executive/management type who smells of a combination of mahogany and expensive black label scotch. (I call this the 5-5-5 plan)

*Scope relaxation up to 100 seats in exchange for allowing pilots to sell commercial advertising space on their flight kits, luggage, and uniforms, in addition to 1 company-issued, monogrammed, blue Snuggie.

*1% point below LUV rates under the terms and conditions that it is formally/officially put in writing that DAL pilots are superior to SWA pilots in every other way as pilots and men.

*Vacation time to remain at 3 hours under the conditions that each pilot is permitted 5-10 minutes of loitering "free time" in the front lobby of a Skyteam Lounge of their choosing each calendar year.

*Sick time allocation and usage relaxation to allow pilots to trade banked sick time for on board beverages and snacks at a rate of 4 Twix or 2 Pringles for 1 hour of sick pay.


I know it's not what everyone might want, but keep in mind that the times have changed, C2K might as well be CULater because this is probably the best deal we are going to get.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Deadhead, is that loitering inside or outside the Skyteam lounge of our choice and how will we know if we get 5 or 10 minutes? Is it seniority based?

Originally Posted by JABDIP

This is how we do it. wORK RULES THAT RESULT IN HIGHER PAY SO THAT THE PAY RATES DO NOT LOOK LIKE A HUGE INCREASE.