Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-24-2011, 10:58 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
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Posts: 23,286
10-24-2011, 11:07 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I wouldn't worry too much about the survey return numbers.
Historically, the Delta pilot group has a very significant level of "under participation". We have a huge "silent contingent". Whether it is surveys or LEC elections.
Its not that they are dumb, they definitely are not, but they just have other things they concentrate on in life. (side businesses, recreation, family, whatever) They prefer not to waste brain cells on any ALPA/Contract type issues. They actively avoid becoming too informed.
You don't necessarily want those guys filling out the surveys.
This is not to say they are somehow anti-labor or pro-management. They will be at our side if the union ever calls for a job action. But they will also not agitate independently, they don't attend meetings, and they especially won't spend any time analyzing our work rules or studying the contract comparison. They vote however the MEC recommends.
That's how our TAs always pass 60-40. If it gets past the MEC, it gets ratified.
Historically, the Delta pilot group has a very significant level of "under participation". We have a huge "silent contingent". Whether it is surveys or LEC elections.
Its not that they are dumb, they definitely are not, but they just have other things they concentrate on in life. (side businesses, recreation, family, whatever) They prefer not to waste brain cells on any ALPA/Contract type issues. They actively avoid becoming too informed.
You don't necessarily want those guys filling out the surveys.
This is not to say they are somehow anti-labor or pro-management. They will be at our side if the union ever calls for a job action. But they will also not agitate independently, they don't attend meetings, and they especially won't spend any time analyzing our work rules or studying the contract comparison. They vote however the MEC recommends.
That's how our TAs always pass 60-40. If it gets past the MEC, it gets ratified.
A buddy of mine had an interesting interaction with a JSer when the JSer became incensed when his ideal raise was pointed out to be well below SWA pay. My buddy was basically told he was wrong, DAL > SWA even after chapter 11... book it.
Let me be honest, how many of us realized just how much SWA made until we started poking each other in the eye over the slot swap? And I'd think the people here are pretty informed so I could imagine on the line the idea is DAL post chapter 11 pay is just knocked down to everyone else.
I think some pilots do indeed believe DAL Post Chapter 11 > SWA in pay. Maybe they're the same ones who believe an EMB-175 is an Airbus and they don't fill out surveys, never heard of the DPA and would vote however the MEC said even if the MEC said there were literally guns pointed at them so they recommend a vote yes but 90% of the airline would be furloughed. They'd vote yes.
10-24-2011, 11:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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10-24-2011, 11:16 AM
Underboob King
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10-24-2011, 11:19 AM
Underboob King
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10-24-2011, 11:26 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I have a question about this. Is that "cap" only a one way check valve? Since we are parking or have parked airframes, does that number of 76 seaters drop, or does it remain constant? My guess is that it remains as it is, and this is a problem that I raised wrt the international code share numbers on POS96. Unless there is a mechanism to ratchet back any outsourcing, we are at the mercy of management to NOT downsize us anymore. How contracts with that kind of provision keep getting written time and time again is beyond me.
10-24-2011, 11:28 AM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
I have a question about this. Is that "cap" only a one way check valve? Since we are parking or have parked airframes, does that number of 76 seaters drop, or does it remain constant? My guess is that it remains as it is, and this is a problem that I raised wrt the international code share numbers on POS96. Unless there is a mechanism to ratchet back any outsourcing, we are at the mercy of management to NOT downsize us anymore. How contracts with that kind of provision keep getting written time and time again is beyond me.
Needs to be corrected now!
10-24-2011, 11:35 AM
Banned
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Posts: 793
unregard...
Last edited by Jesse; 10-24-2011 at 12:27 PM.
10-24-2011, 11:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Just trying to grasp some of this, mostly the bold part.
I am guessing this was the chief pilot powwow, not the union roadshow?
Anyone with more info to add?
This all just sounds like snippets that line pilots want to hear...organic growth, contract by amenable date, shiny new jets and more of them. etc.
I am guessing this was the chief pilot powwow, not the union roadshow?
Anyone with more info to add?
This all just sounds like snippets that line pilots want to hear...organic growth, contract by amenable date, shiny new jets and more of them. etc.
The 777 rumor was extremely vague and besides I think its clear we are a 2 engine airline. We want out of the 4 engine business bad. That's what JV partners are for anyway. As for the ammendable date thing, even if he said that, what is his definition of agreement?
Status quo or worse scope? An outsourced 250+ fleet of DC-9-10 replaement jets on another seniority list? Route transfers to Alaska as we outsource 737-900's on high frequency dense markets between massive DL cities in exchange for a little bit more wide body flying (the most insane stratedgy ever)?
As for pay, does RA think our bankruptcy emergency survival loan contract is some new world order in the permantly changed landscape of pilot costs? And does he also think that he can throw full or partial cost of living adjustments on top of that and call it a "30% raise over the life of" and have that bold faced lie repeated and peddled by pilot leadership, all in the name of "constructive engagement" and getting an agreement by the ammendable date?
Or if we push for superior than SWA pay, work rules and scope, will he "put his game face on" and get nasty?
I'm sure he wants an agreement by the ammendable date. Every CEO in the nation does. The question is what kind of an agreement. SWA+ pay, rates and W-2, full and complete cost of living on top of that, very significant scope recapture at all levels and work rule improvements across the board, fix our pathetic vacation and use it or lose it sick time give back program and several other things and he can have a quick CBA by the ammendable date. But somehow I doubt he would be so labor friendly in that case.
We outsource WAY too many pilot jobs, at all levels. We earn WAY too little. Our vacation and work rules need significant improvements. And COLA IS NOT A RAISE.
If we can all agree on that, a quick contract is very possible. If a quick contract does not happen, you can bet it is because RA does not agree to those basic facts and is playing car salesman to get us in a new CBA today.
10-24-2011, 11:43 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Last Captain I was flying with stopped to speak to a couple LCA's and they confirmed most of what was posted here to include the "RA wants it done by the amenable date" they also mentioned something along the lines of RA said around 30% was doable but spread over the duration of the contract...FYI
Not. Even. Close.
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