Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-24-2011, 06:15 AM
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
Just did a 7 day mil charter trip... Charter coordinator said to expect a lot more, and that the company is bending over backwards looking for ways to fill all the requests for more from the govt. supposedly delta has made almost 300 mil this year on mil charters.
Oh, and the WRO layover is awesome.
Oh, and the WRO layover is awesome.
10-24-2011, 06:24 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: A-320/A
Posts: 588
Talked to a buddy of mine on the phone yesterday...his words:
"I wont waste 5 minutes of my time let alone one hour to do anything for ALPA. They wont listen and I want them gone yesterday. They already have their contract plans set and I'd be shocked if we got a 15% raise. Scope recapture...never, not from ALPA. If we didn't have agency shop, alpa membership would be less than 30%."
Again his words, a DALs, mid seniority pilot...his perspective.
Coming from him, I was actually very surprised to hear him speak so passionately and bluntly about his ALPA dissatisfaction.
"I wont waste 5 minutes of my time let alone one hour to do anything for ALPA. They wont listen and I want them gone yesterday. They already have their contract plans set and I'd be shocked if we got a 15% raise. Scope recapture...never, not from ALPA. If we didn't have agency shop, alpa membership would be less than 30%."
Again his words, a DALs, mid seniority pilot...his perspective.
Coming from him, I was actually very surprised to hear him speak so passionately and bluntly about his ALPA dissatisfaction.
.....rant over.....
10-24-2011, 06:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
It is what we want to hear. Particularly the lie about "we have not found a suitable 100 seat airframe." This lie has been often repeated while, in fact, they have been buying 100 seat airframes (configured with 76 seats) for several years now and have bought hundreds of them.
The CRJ700/900 and E175 have MD88/90, 737-700, A319/320 economics and similar cost per seat mile statistics. We need to realize that our contract does not have a 76 seat cap, as much as it has a 160 seat floor. As long as we allow management to outsource our small jet flying and our large jet flying (AF/KLM JV) they'll continue to grow their operation while simply leaving us behind.
I know we pilots are well educated far beyond our intelligence and aren't likely to blurt out "LIAR" at a road show ... but maybe someone could respectfully ask "what is Delta's core business?" The follow up question should be, "then why do we make such great effort to avoid doing any flying ourselves?"
New marketing slogan ... "Delta we're pigeons ... we don't fly unless there's no other choice."
The CRJ700/900 and E175 have MD88/90, 737-700, A319/320 economics and similar cost per seat mile statistics. We need to realize that our contract does not have a 76 seat cap, as much as it has a 160 seat floor. As long as we allow management to outsource our small jet flying and our large jet flying (AF/KLM JV) they'll continue to grow their operation while simply leaving us behind.
I know we pilots are well educated far beyond our intelligence and aren't likely to blurt out "LIAR" at a road show ... but maybe someone could respectfully ask "what is Delta's core business?" The follow up question should be, "then why do we make such great effort to avoid doing any flying ourselves?"
New marketing slogan ... "Delta we're pigeons ... we don't fly unless there's no other choice."
We have a 70 seat cap of 255 jets. There is an exception that allows a portion of those 255 to have up to 76 seats, contingent on mainline fleet count.
Secondly, how are Delta pilots flying around A-319's, 737-700's, DC-9's, A-320's, and MD-88's if the "floor" is 160 seats? If the "floor" of the PWA only protects 160 seats and above, we have 285 aircraft worth of pilots who are unprotected. I just can't agree with that.
The rest of the post is spot on , IMHO.
10-24-2011, 06:29 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,038
Shiz,
I'm talking economics. We have given management a CHOICE and the basis for that decision is mostly cost per seat mile. By allowing an airplane with mainline economics to be outsourced, we have to compete with those we allow to operate, for our flying.
Management is not going to buy a 100 / 120 / 140 jet to replace our DC9's as long as they have access to the CRJ and EMB fleets operated off property. They've bought 255 DC9/B727 replacements.
I simply wish management would man up and tell us the truth, just as Doug Steenland used to. I'm tired of being lied to with "we have not found a suitable 100 seat airplane" and all the pilots go "ohhh (scratch nuts) ohh kay, duh." I'd like just one in the crowd to say:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nvuEw9XcuU
I'm talking economics. We have given management a CHOICE and the basis for that decision is mostly cost per seat mile. By allowing an airplane with mainline economics to be outsourced, we have to compete with those we allow to operate, for our flying.
Management is not going to buy a 100 / 120 / 140 jet to replace our DC9's as long as they have access to the CRJ and EMB fleets operated off property. They've bought 255 DC9/B727 replacements.
I simply wish management would man up and tell us the truth, just as Doug Steenland used to. I'm tired of being lied to with "we have not found a suitable 100 seat airplane" and all the pilots go "ohhh (scratch nuts) ohh kay, duh." I'd like just one in the crowd to say:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nvuEw9XcuU
10-24-2011, 06:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
HI would be a lot of good and a little bad. Over all a winner. They would buff our Pacific network even more, common fleet, foot in the door for 717's, and of course we would be the leaders in the HI market going both directions.
In any case, the number of pilots there is so few and what they would bring to our network so disproportionately greater, the SLI would be pretty painless and quick. Probably very close to a ratio and only a few fences here and there. I just hope it happens before they buff their list 20-30% by running just a few classes real quick.
In any case, the number of pilots there is so few and what they would bring to our network so disproportionately greater, the SLI would be pretty painless and quick. Probably very close to a ratio and only a few fences here and there. I just hope it happens before they buff their list 20-30% by running just a few classes real quick.
. 500+ guys would probably be placed above me, especially when they get done with their hiring and I'm a 12 year FO at Delta. I agree with you that I would rather it be HI than other airlines, however it would lead to more stagnation by putting some very young guys at the top of our list. The reality for those of us who have stagnated and grown older, no merger is going to be pretty with any carrier that has grown even a small amount. Most of the carriers I've heard in rumors regarding mergers have younger pilots with advantageous relative seniority. In the case of HA, they would be bringing some very quality people and bases. Maybe I'll get to throw the gear for my HA braddah 
. Howzit Bully?
10-24-2011, 06:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Shiz,
I'm talking economics. We have given management a CHOICE and the basis for that decision is mostly cost per seat mile. By allowing an airplane with mainline economics to be outsourced, we have to compete with those we allow to operate, for our flying.
Management is not going to buy a 100 / 120 / 140 jet to replace our DC9's as long as they have access to the CRJ and EMB fleets operated off property. They've bought 255 DC9/B727 replacements.
I simply wish management would man up and tell us the truth, just as Doug Steenland used to. I'm tired of being lied to with "we have not found a suitable 100 seat airplane" and all the pilots go "ohhh (scratch nuts) ohh kay, duh." I'd like just one in the crowd to say:
Frau Farbissina: Lies, ALL LIES! - YouTube
I'm talking economics. We have given management a CHOICE and the basis for that decision is mostly cost per seat mile. By allowing an airplane with mainline economics to be outsourced, we have to compete with those we allow to operate, for our flying.
Management is not going to buy a 100 / 120 / 140 jet to replace our DC9's as long as they have access to the CRJ and EMB fleets operated off property. They've bought 255 DC9/B727 replacements.
I simply wish management would man up and tell us the truth, just as Doug Steenland used to. I'm tired of being lied to with "we have not found a suitable 100 seat airplane" and all the pilots go "ohhh (scratch nuts) ohh kay, duh." I'd like just one in the crowd to say:
Frau Farbissina: Lies, ALL LIES! - YouTube
It is an "economic floor" around 160 seats.......
I know my survey is scope, scope and more scope......The rest of the PWA is worthless without protecting the flying.
10-24-2011, 06:44 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Hi FTB,
Dear Lord, I sincerely hope you are WAAAAY off base. At the MEM road-show last week, T.O. (or one of the other guys) indicated that it was something in the 6K range of guys who'd responded to date. If that's the best we get in the way of survey returns, man, are we ever going to get @#!$%-slapped on C2012. You'll have a hard time ever finding a guy who would admit to NOT filling out the survey. If 7K pilots is all we get interested in the process, I don't even want to contemplate what our next contract will look like.
Chuck
Dear Lord, I sincerely hope you are WAAAAY off base. At the MEM road-show last week, T.O. (or one of the other guys) indicated that it was something in the 6K range of guys who'd responded to date. If that's the best we get in the way of survey returns, man, are we ever going to get @#!$%-slapped on C2012. You'll have a hard time ever finding a guy who would admit to NOT filling out the survey. If 7K pilots is all we get interested in the process, I don't even want to contemplate what our next contract will look like.
Chuck
Historically, the Delta pilot group has a very significant level of "under participation". We have a huge "silent contingent". Whether it is surveys or LEC elections.
Its not that they are dumb, they definitely are not, but they just have other things they concentrate on in life. (side businesses, recreation, family, whatever) They prefer not to waste brain cells on any ALPA/Contract type issues. They actively avoid becoming too informed.
You don't necessarily want those guys filling out the surveys.
This is not to say they are somehow anti-labor or pro-management. They will be at our side if the union ever calls for a job action. But they will also not agitate independently, they don't attend meetings, and they especially won't spend any time analyzing our work rules or studying the contract comparison. They vote however the MEC recommends.
That's how our TAs always pass 60-40. If it gets past the MEC, it gets ratified.
10-24-2011, 06:52 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,038
10-24-2011, 07:06 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
10-24-2011, 07:17 AM
Weekend and Holiday Pilot
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Sippin' at the Troubadour
Posts: 1,142
Last Captain I was flying with stopped to speak to a couple LCA's and they confirmed most of what was posted here to include the "RA wants it done by the amenable date" they also mentioned something along the lines of RA said around 30% was doable but spread over the duration of the contract...FYI
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