80ktsClamp

Unless it involves flying being brought back to mainline, I don't want it.

SVA402

I have to disagree here... Why not ask for everything at this point? And beyond that, at the risk of sounding arrogant, I honestly think pilots should have better pass privileges than other employees. Maybe I'm wrong, it's been known to happen, but that's my take on it.

hoserpilot

I'm going be Devil's advocate for a bit....

While I agree with the last few pages of posts, I still think that maybe Dalpa is doing what we asked them to do. As far as council 44 goes, our communication has increased dramatically. Like it or not, they are communicating. We asked for it.

In regards to the lack of info right now....we asked for it. We wanted our union to listen to us. The responded by giving us a contract survey. We can fight about how poor the survey is but at least we have one. The union has kept fairly quiet while we do our survey. Again, we asked them to listen to us. Lets fill out our survey's and provide the input to our union. They are doing exactly what we asked of them.

Don't over think this. If you just look at what we asked them to do on these two issues they are complying with our requests.

Now on to the MCO comment.....

With all the crap that T.O. has gotten from us maybe he thought he was amongst a sympathetic crowd of fellow pilots. We've all been beaten down for 10 years...(except us newbies). He is in a position where 12000+ pilots are venting and he has to listen. Its hard enough to listen to my darn wife let alone 12000 venting pilots!!!!!

Don't call me an apologist. I'm not. I'm just trying to see this junk from every angle. I'd still like to figure out how to sneak into the 4th floor of the training building. I know those new-hires girls need extra special training!!!

TenYearsGone

I hate to say it but I think you are right. Most Captains I have flown with in the last month or two have been very relaxed with the notion of a small raise and some work rule changes.

I hope the survey tells a different story..

This is the reason we should never vote to lower our benefits and pay. Let them forcefully take it from us because once we voluntarily give them away, it will be very hard to get them back.

TEN

hoserpilot

I hope the survey conveys what I've heard from my captains. I think I fly with a bunch of dead zone angry folks that want nothing less than full restoration. These guys give me hope.

I agree with your last comment. Never vote to give away stuff, make them work for it!! Heck, they have taken enough. Now it's time to restore this profession to its rightful place.

After careful review, I finally submitted my survey. Unfortunately I just read some stuff regarding our upcoming open enrollment changes to our healthcare. I may have to redo my whole survey just to vent about the increasing health care costs!!! Check it out on the benefits site and the dalpa forums.

gloopy

Florida's not my bag but rock on, I see where you're coming from. And I'm not against positive space vacation passes, but it is way, way, way down the list. If I were planning a vacation to an ultra high load factor destination like FL or LV or really anywhere in the summer, I'd fly comfirmed for less and know I'm getting there. Now on our greatly reduced pay, multiplied by the seniority pounding of outsourcing half our airline, I can see why buying a ticket is not always a financial reality. But that's the issue. We can't afford our own product, which is cheaper than ever.

That's what needs to be corrected. Once it is, we can look into vacation passes as a legitimate perk, not a band aid trying to cover up grave dancing bonus mongering emergency survival contracts that divert money to "executive talent" instead.

gloopy

Like I said, I'm not against nice perks for us. But we have a massive amount of work to do first. I see this as a potential emotional distraction. I'm pro pilot to the bone and have a thin skin for jealous entitlement mentalities from other groups, but this is one issue that if we paid for in negotiations, we would be paying to get it for everyone. If the company wants to make this a policy because they feel it will build goodwill and attract/retain talent and make for happier employees, great! Gordon Bethune used to buy new cars to give away to employees with perfect attendance. But he did it because he wanted to because he saw a ROI in doing so. The pilots didn't buy them for everyone.

I just thought it was odd that such a random third tier issue was embedded in lines of questioning that tried to get us to choose between scope and pay, retirement and work rules, etc. The survey was very much a "the pie is only so big so what do you want and what can you live without" and yet here is this interesting but extremely low priority issue.

Fix pay, scope, work rules and retirement and we could afford our own tickets...although if, after all that, the company still wanted to offer them as a perk, rock on!

Bill Lumberg

Not me. Almost every Captain I've flown with lately knows we got raped in BK, and they all want large increases. But, those surveys seem important, so make sure you tell everyone to complete it and not to aim low like some North LEC members advocate.

NuGuy

I've heard a rumor that the "Chili de Conquistadors" that I had for dinner, washed down with a flat, tepid Diet Coke served up by an irritable waiter, will soon be flowing through. Judging from the looks I got in the car, more than one person has heard this as well. I should know more details in a minute or two.

Which do you think is more likely to come true?

Nu

1234

It is interesting in that the top captain is 9700 euros and the base captain is 7600 euros however, the base FO is only 2750 euros. Using your calculations, the base FO us rate would be just under $90,000/year.

Are you suggesting that the FO's take more pay cuts in order to increase the captain pay?