Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-14-2011, 10:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I agree 100% and have been preparing for two years.
Of note, a lot of pilots I come in contact with really do not think that ALPA will take the fight to the highest levels afforded to them under section 6, and for us to be successful and for ALPA to be successful, that needs to change. It starts with DALPA showing the pilots that they got their back.
Of note, a lot of pilots I come in contact with really do not think that ALPA will take the fight to the highest levels afforded to them under section 6, and for us to be successful and for ALPA to be successful, that needs to change. It starts with DALPA showing the pilots that they got their back.
Passed up a lot of bling over the years, and left a lot of toys on the shelf, yet still lived well enough and enjoyed it along the way and never gave a second thought to dropping days I wanted off. I cringe when I see guys that make 2 or 3 times (or more) and yet live hand to mouth spending money they won't even make for several years. Management LOVES that.
10-14-2011, 10:06 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Starting January 2012 DELTA is launching 2 weekly Busan – Saipan service, on board Boeing 757-200 aircraft.
Cheers
George
Cheers
George
10-14-2011, 10:11 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
10-14-2011, 10:39 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: New to mother D
Posts: 123
In defense of DALPA...
I've been hard on ALPA on a number of issues. However, I have some thoughts on the road show and people's criticisms of TO's positions (or lack thereof) yesterday.
Overall I'm happy with how TO and company handled themselves yesterday and how they postured themselves at the last road show.
A lot of guys yesterday were asking for leadership... guys want TO and the negotiating folks to come out with solid positions on restoration, scope, etc. etc.
I think the DALPA guys are doing the right thing by not tipping their hand. You don't walk into a car dealership, stroll into the sales manager's office, and tell him you want a car with a chrome bumper. You've just given away negotiating leverage. He can now use that knowledge against you in negotiations. He knows you can't live without that chrome bumper... so he can chisel away at other options that are secondary to you.
Likewise, I don't want the negotiating committee making public declarations about which issues are critical to the pilot group.
Secondly, someone got up yesterday and said that the pilot group needs to be rallied... I want a pilot group that's willing to go to the mat if it's required. However, step back for a second and take a look at the context in which these guys are going to have to negotiate.
Think about this for a second... you're on the negotiating committee and negotiating against the company. The NMB is watching. Things have ground to a halt and the company isn't showing up to the table with the gains you need. Do you want the company to be able to paint you as cheerleaders of what they say is the most demanding and aggressive part of the pilot group? I don't think so. I think the negotiating committee would rather be able to say "look guys, we'd love to be able to take this to MEMRAT, but they'll have our heads on pikes and then you might be dealing with someone else."
It think it is ultimately to our advantage to have our negotiators be able to present themselves as asking for less than the pilot group at large is demanding.
That being said, from the last two road shows and the comments I've heard from DALPA guys about the situation at American and the actions of the APA, I have the impression that they feel that taking something now is better than enduring an extended standoff that might result from asking for more substantial gains. I do not assert that this is in fact the case, but it is definitely the impression I have.
All in all, I think we should bear in mind that we're still months from openers. It's not the time for a lot of what guys were asking for yesterday, and a lot of the things that guys were asking for yesterday, while they may assuage some anxiety about the process, might ultimately weaken our ability to negotiate the best contract we can.
Overall I'm happy with how TO and company handled themselves yesterday and how they postured themselves at the last road show.
A lot of guys yesterday were asking for leadership... guys want TO and the negotiating folks to come out with solid positions on restoration, scope, etc. etc.
I think the DALPA guys are doing the right thing by not tipping their hand. You don't walk into a car dealership, stroll into the sales manager's office, and tell him you want a car with a chrome bumper. You've just given away negotiating leverage. He can now use that knowledge against you in negotiations. He knows you can't live without that chrome bumper... so he can chisel away at other options that are secondary to you.
Likewise, I don't want the negotiating committee making public declarations about which issues are critical to the pilot group.
Secondly, someone got up yesterday and said that the pilot group needs to be rallied... I want a pilot group that's willing to go to the mat if it's required. However, step back for a second and take a look at the context in which these guys are going to have to negotiate.
Think about this for a second... you're on the negotiating committee and negotiating against the company. The NMB is watching. Things have ground to a halt and the company isn't showing up to the table with the gains you need. Do you want the company to be able to paint you as cheerleaders of what they say is the most demanding and aggressive part of the pilot group? I don't think so. I think the negotiating committee would rather be able to say "look guys, we'd love to be able to take this to MEMRAT, but they'll have our heads on pikes and then you might be dealing with someone else."
It think it is ultimately to our advantage to have our negotiators be able to present themselves as asking for less than the pilot group at large is demanding.
That being said, from the last two road shows and the comments I've heard from DALPA guys about the situation at American and the actions of the APA, I have the impression that they feel that taking something now is better than enduring an extended standoff that might result from asking for more substantial gains. I do not assert that this is in fact the case, but it is definitely the impression I have.
All in all, I think we should bear in mind that we're still months from openers. It's not the time for a lot of what guys were asking for yesterday, and a lot of the things that guys were asking for yesterday, while they may assuage some anxiety about the process, might ultimately weaken our ability to negotiate the best contract we can.
10-14-2011, 10:48 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Trip Rig = 3.5:1 which basically means for every 3.5 Time Away From Base (TAFB) on your rotation you will receive 1 hour of credit. This is pretty lame and definitely needs to be improved.
Duty Period Average (DPA) is 5:15 per Duty period. This is totally unacceptable and a major detriment to quality of life for DAL Pilots.
First off its Duty period vice daily average which means you can have only 3 duty periods even on a 4 day trip. *** This is done via layovers greater than 24 hours so that if you are a 4 day trip, fly on every one of those 4 days but have a long layover you may only qualify for 3 duty periods. Theoretically you can have 2 duty periods on a 4 day trip but then you will be protected by the abysmal 3.5:1 trip rig. Trip rig credit is very inefficient for the pilots and not how you want to make money.
Secondly, 5:15 in itself is pretty poor. So we have a crappy system (DPA) governed by a low average. Many guys on APC have said what they would like to see instead. For example, a 6 hour daily average which would basically mean 6 hours minimum for a one day, 12 hours for a two day, 18 hours for a three day etc. The beauty of this is that if the company could produce more efficient trips the cost increase to the company is not linear. This means going from 5:15 to 6:00 approximately a 13% increase can cost the company a lot less than 13%.
The problem DAL currently has with scheduling efficiency is that marketing drives the flight schedule with little or no thought to pilot efficiency. Throw in multiple aircraft serving each city along with DCI service and the trip construction problem starts getting similar to playing three dimensional chess - very complicated. I am not syaing the company cannot do it better - its not like we have a bunch of monks locked away in a monastery cranking out the rotations (although they might do a better job) but it is all run by a computer. The computer inputs and variables are what determines our fate.
Throw in other restrictions like the companies minimum 12 hour reset after red-eyes (unilaterally imposed by the company) and you you are stuck with guys sitting on their arse for 30 hours.
Got to go - I will let someone else explain Duty Rig.
*** If you really want to directly see the negative affects of the DPA system on QOL pull up the LAX 737 bid package sometime and look over the 4900 series of rotations. This will convey the importance of good rigs far far better than reading about it on a forum and bring it home in a way we can all understand.
Hope this helps - Scoop
10-14-2011, 11:01 AM
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
2-On the right side of the page, type "Android" into the search window.
3-The third result is titled: "DeltaNet - Accessing icrew via iphone, ipad or android." Select that link.
4-On the next page, select "Accessing icrew via Android"
10-14-2011, 11:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
I'm selling my bar stool cheep
Seriously, after dropping service there from KIX and NGO they need more flights! I'll bet a PVG and/or PEK flight would work too if it were marketed well. But, there is that visa thingie........
Ferd
10-14-2011, 11:10 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: going to Boeing Dog...
Posts: 49
Many A's Nov. schedule is unofficially viewable if you know where to look 
10-14-2011, 11:12 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 617
Noooooooooooooo............I go to training on the A330 in Dec.
I'm selling my bar stool cheep
Seriously, after dropping service there from KIX and NGO they need more flights! I'll bet a PVG and/or PEK flight would work too if it were marketed well. But, there is that visa thingie........
Ferd
I'm selling my bar stool cheep
Seriously, after dropping service there from KIX and NGO they need more flights! I'll bet a PVG and/or PEK flight would work too if it were marketed well. But, there is that visa thingie........
Ferd
10-14-2011, 11:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
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