Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-13-2011, 07:49 PM
Looking for a laugh
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
https://connect.delta.com/f5-w-687474703a2f2f646c6e65742e64656c74612e636f6d$$/tibadmin/DocumentDownload?docname=FOP/Communication/News_Brief/article_0084267.pdf
10-13-2011, 08:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,538
10-14-2011, 03:10 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Apparently, the AF and KLM pilots shared the info with us but demanded that we keep their pay private since under EU laws they do not have to disclose what is in their contract. At least that is what someone told me was said yesterday at the road show.
10-14-2011, 03:20 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Anyone have a simple way of explaining Duty/Trip Rigs & Duty Period Minimum?
A little hung up on the survey questions.
A little hung up on the survey questions.
10-14-2011, 03:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
The NC chair said there would be a negotiator's notepad coming out that will provide an apples to apples comparison of the public portions of the AF and KLM contracts. That includes pay. He commented that unlike the US, the European CLA's were private documents and that he would have to send the notepad for their review. He also said their workrules were similar to ours, but their pay structure was completely different (KLM salaried and AF a mix of salary and hourly). He did point out that the French get 48 days of vacation mandated by French law, so it's not something that's in their contract. I'd sure like that piece here.
10-14-2011, 03:48 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Talk about a bunch of people who aren't happy unless they aren't happy.....
I'm just saying, if I was running the show, I wouldn't run around firing up the troops just yet, we still have 6 months until openers, 15 months until the amendable, and 18 months until we agree to submit to mediation.
(Q for the old(er) guys: How many months into the last Section 6 did the NW and DL union leadership go before they started rattling their sabers?)
We are much better off showing a "happy relationship" with Delta managment to the media and Wall Street until we can use the prospect of "labor discord" as a legitimate sledgehammer on the stock price. If we run around complaining and looking disgruntled now the Wall St. players who love to manipulate stocks and trade on emotional (i.e. non-financial) issues, the stock will do the dive now and we will have lost the leverage that exists now, instead a year from now when it can push mgt. over the edge and into a deal.
The conundrum is that DPA and other unhappy guys want something that soothes their emotions now, and will continue their present behavior until they get the emotional salve for their feelings. So now T.O. et al are stuck trying to keep the leverage available for use to "improve the pay and working conditions of the Delta Pilots" for when it will bring the maximum effect or expend it now to get the angry rabble back on board, but then have lost it for when we needed to threaten to tank the stock price in order to seal a new deal.
Getting emotional now doesn't do a D#$% thing to put more money in my bank account. In fact, it just might keep more money OUT of my bank account for a longer period of time. F-that.
If I were union boss, I would hold off from making a war speech/letter getting the "rat inflated" until we are near to a deal, and then we may still not see it, the threat of that and the subsequent effect on the stock price (and upper management stock options) will have a tangible effect on negotiations. The RLA doesn't give us much leverage, we can't squander it on "feel good medicine", we need to use it to get a deal.
We've had some real turnover in the LEC elections(lots of fired up guys have been elected recently), give them a chance to succeed.
10-14-2011, 04:11 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
That someone that told you didn't understand the answer as I heard it.
The NC chair said there would be a negotiator's notepad coming out that will provide an apples to apples comparison of the public portions of the AF and KLM contracts. That includes pay. He commented that unlike the US, the European CLA's were private documents and that he would have to send the notepad for their review. He also said their workrules were similar to ours, but their pay structure was completely different (KLM salaried and AF a mix of salary and hourly). He did point out that the French get 48 days of vacation mandated by French law, so it's not something that's in their contract. I'd sure like that piece here.
The NC chair said there would be a negotiator's notepad coming out that will provide an apples to apples comparison of the public portions of the AF and KLM contracts. That includes pay. He commented that unlike the US, the European CLA's were private documents and that he would have to send the notepad for their review. He also said their workrules were similar to ours, but their pay structure was completely different (KLM salaried and AF a mix of salary and hourly). He did point out that the French get 48 days of vacation mandated by French law, so it's not something that's in their contract. I'd sure like that piece here.
Good to know. It seemed a little weird, and thanks for clarifying. I asked them to clarify it since I was not present yesterday. What you posted makes a lot more sense. I can also see why someone may not understand exactly how this was going to presented.
Do you have a time frame for the Notepad?
10-14-2011, 04:12 AM
Pog Ma Hoin
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 7ER B
Posts: 208
Are those guys ever positive about anything (except that the sky is falling)?
Talk about a bunch of people who aren't happy unless they aren't happy.....
I'm just saying, if I was running the show, I wouldn't run around firing up the troops just yet, we still have 6 months until openers, 15 months until the amendable, and 18 months until we agree to submit to mediation.
(Q for the old(er) guys: How many months into the last Section 6 did the NW and DL union leadership go before they started rattling their sabers?)
We are much better off showing a "happy relationship" with Delta managment to the media and Wall Street until we can use the prospect of "labor discord" as a legitimate sledgehammer on the stock price. If we run around complaining and looking disgruntled now the Wall St. players who love to manipulate stocks and trade on emotional (i.e. non-financial) issues, the stock will do the dive now and we will have lost the leverage that exists now, instead a year from now when it can push mgt. over the edge and into a deal.
The conundrum is that DPA and other unhappy guys want something that soothes their emotions now, and will continue their present behavior until they get the emotional salve for their feelings. So now T.O. et al are stuck trying to keep the leverage available for use to "improve the pay and working conditions of the Delta Pilots" for when it will bring the maximum effect or expend it now to get the angry rabble back on board, but then have lost it for when we needed to threaten to tank the stock price in order to seal a new deal.
Getting emotional now doesn't do a D#$% thing to put more money in my bank account. In fact, it just might keep more money OUT of my bank account for a longer period of time. F-that.
If I were union boss, I would hold off from making a war speech/letter getting the "rat inflated" until we are near to a deal, and then we may still not see it, the threat of that and the subsequent effect on the stock price (and upper management stock options) will have a tangible effect on negotiations. The RLA doesn't give us much leverage, we can't squander it on "feel good medicine", we need to use it to get a deal.
We've had some real turnover in the LEC elections(lots of fired up guys have been elected recently), give them a chance to succeed.
Talk about a bunch of people who aren't happy unless they aren't happy.....
I'm just saying, if I was running the show, I wouldn't run around firing up the troops just yet, we still have 6 months until openers, 15 months until the amendable, and 18 months until we agree to submit to mediation.
(Q for the old(er) guys: How many months into the last Section 6 did the NW and DL union leadership go before they started rattling their sabers?)
We are much better off showing a "happy relationship" with Delta managment to the media and Wall Street until we can use the prospect of "labor discord" as a legitimate sledgehammer on the stock price. If we run around complaining and looking disgruntled now the Wall St. players who love to manipulate stocks and trade on emotional (i.e. non-financial) issues, the stock will do the dive now and we will have lost the leverage that exists now, instead a year from now when it can push mgt. over the edge and into a deal.
The conundrum is that DPA and other unhappy guys want something that soothes their emotions now, and will continue their present behavior until they get the emotional salve for their feelings. So now T.O. et al are stuck trying to keep the leverage available for use to "improve the pay and working conditions of the Delta Pilots" for when it will bring the maximum effect or expend it now to get the angry rabble back on board, but then have lost it for when we needed to threaten to tank the stock price in order to seal a new deal.
Getting emotional now doesn't do a D#$% thing to put more money in my bank account. In fact, it just might keep more money OUT of my bank account for a longer period of time. F-that.
If I were union boss, I would hold off from making a war speech/letter getting the "rat inflated" until we are near to a deal, and then we may still not see it, the threat of that and the subsequent effect on the stock price (and upper management stock options) will have a tangible effect on negotiations. The RLA doesn't give us much leverage, we can't squander it on "feel good medicine", we need to use it to get a deal.
We've had some real turnover in the LEC elections(lots of fired up guys have been elected recently), give them a chance to succeed.
10-14-2011, 04:15 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Are those guys ever positive about anything (except that the sky is falling)?
Talk about a bunch of people who aren't happy unless they aren't happy.....
I'm just saying, if I was running the show, I wouldn't run around firing up the troops just yet, we still have 6 months until openers, 15 months until the amendable, and 18 months until we agree to submit to mediation.
(Q for the old(er) guys: How many months into the last Section 6 did the NW and DL union leadership go before they started rattling their sabers?)
We are much better off showing a "happy relationship" with Delta managment to the media and Wall Street until we can use the prospect of "labor discord" as a legitimate sledgehammer on the stock price. If we run around complaining and looking disgruntled now the Wall St. players who love to manipulate stocks and trade on emotional (i.e. non-financial) issues, the stock will do the dive now and we will have lost the leverage that exists now, instead a year from now when it can push mgt. over the edge and into a deal.
The conundrum is that DPA and other unhappy guys want something that soothes their emotions now, and will continue their present behavior until they get the emotional salve for their feelings. So now T.O. et al are stuck trying to keep the leverage available for use to "improve the pay and working conditions of the Delta Pilots" for when it will bring the maximum effect or expend it now to get the angry rabble back on board, but then have lost it for when we needed to threaten to tank the stock price in order to seal a new deal.
Getting emotional now doesn't do a D#$% thing to put more money in my bank account. In fact, it just might keep more money OUT of my bank account for a longer period of time. F-that.
If I were union boss, I would hold off from making a war speech/letter getting the "rat inflated" until we are near to a deal, and then we may still not see it, the threat of that and the subsequent effect on the stock price (and upper management stock options) will have a tangible effect on negotiations. The RLA doesn't give us much leverage, we can't squander it on "feel good medicine", we need to use it to get a deal.
We've had some real turnover in the LEC elections(lots of fired up guys have been elected recently), give them a chance to succeed.
Talk about a bunch of people who aren't happy unless they aren't happy.....
I'm just saying, if I was running the show, I wouldn't run around firing up the troops just yet, we still have 6 months until openers, 15 months until the amendable, and 18 months until we agree to submit to mediation.
(Q for the old(er) guys: How many months into the last Section 6 did the NW and DL union leadership go before they started rattling their sabers?)
We are much better off showing a "happy relationship" with Delta managment to the media and Wall Street until we can use the prospect of "labor discord" as a legitimate sledgehammer on the stock price. If we run around complaining and looking disgruntled now the Wall St. players who love to manipulate stocks and trade on emotional (i.e. non-financial) issues, the stock will do the dive now and we will have lost the leverage that exists now, instead a year from now when it can push mgt. over the edge and into a deal.
The conundrum is that DPA and other unhappy guys want something that soothes their emotions now, and will continue their present behavior until they get the emotional salve for their feelings. So now T.O. et al are stuck trying to keep the leverage available for use to "improve the pay and working conditions of the Delta Pilots" for when it will bring the maximum effect or expend it now to get the angry rabble back on board, but then have lost it for when we needed to threaten to tank the stock price in order to seal a new deal.
Getting emotional now doesn't do a D#$% thing to put more money in my bank account. In fact, it just might keep more money OUT of my bank account for a longer period of time. F-that.
If I were union boss, I would hold off from making a war speech/letter getting the "rat inflated" until we are near to a deal, and then we may still not see it, the threat of that and the subsequent effect on the stock price (and upper management stock options) will have a tangible effect on negotiations. The RLA doesn't give us much leverage, we can't squander it on "feel good medicine", we need to use it to get a deal.
We've had some real turnover in the LEC elections(lots of fired up guys have been elected recently), give them a chance to succeed.
I do think that the Admin is projecting that at these road shows and as more pilots show up, the more start to actually see that the Admin means what they say. Everyone knows they will be accountable for their words, esp them.
On the LEC turnover. This is quite true. The MEC makeup is slowly shifting to more pilots that were not around during their respective CH11 process. Not good or bad, just a change, and the cycling of these positions is a good thing.
10-14-2011, 04:19 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
I'm just saying, if I was running the show, I wouldn't run around firing up the troops just yet, we still have 6 months until openers, 15 months until the amendable, and 18 months until we agree to submit to mediation.
(Q for the old(er) guys: How many months into the last Section 6 did the NW and DL union leadership go before they started rattling their sabers?)
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