gloopy

True. He also hinted that larger RJ's were on the table as well, like the 90 seaters flying around with 76 seats in a 2 class management preferred config that eventually hapened anyway.

Comair management had a long standing policy that they didn't always enforce that required seniority resignation. Ironically it is the exact same policy DL itself had and still does.

ASA management had no such policy.

DL went to the ASA and Comair MEC's, both of which were in on the PID and passively agressively supporting the RJDC by the way, and told them to ask their managements to hire without seniority resignation or they would be punished. The ASA MEC said "yeah sure whatever dood its already existing policy so whatever" and the CMR MEC puffed up their chests and acted like they had leverage they never did. Plenty of arrogance to go around.

Then when the dust settled, the ASA pilot group was acting like they stepped up and helped brothers in need with a valliant effort when they in fact actively did nothing (as a group) and the DL MEC had the scapegoat they needed to distract their membership from the catestrophic scope failures C2K allowed as DCI went on a multi thousand pilot hiring fest in addition to putting the DL mainline seniority resignation policy itself that was actually harming the furloughed pilots behind the political smokescreen they needed so it didn't have to be directly addressed.

Meanwhile plenty of furloughed AA and UAL (among many, many others) went on to get temp work at ASA and Comair because their airlines refused to recognize their fake resignation letters as everyone knew they were written under duress anyway. Only DL management vowed to honor such letters, the same that Comair required and that the DL MEC refused to worry about getting changed.

Not to mention DL owned both and could have very easily forced both to hire as many pilots as DL demanded without seniority resignation. It was a Delta problem with a Delta solution that the outsourcing happy Delta MEC didn't want to spend one more second on then they had to. When they saw a political move to blame it on a regional group they jumped all over it, while continuing to defend the thousands of new DCI pilots the scope failures they endorsed directly caused even as they defended said scope failures by having the audacity to say RJ's were saving their bacon and were it not for the outsourcing there would be even more furloughs so the furloughed pilots should be thanking them.

The end result drove a bigger wedge between DL and ASA/CMR pilots as well as well as between the ASA and CMR pilots during a time when predatory bargaining ("deal me an ace") was really starting to spool up in the regional sector. Suddenly "pay for training" was perfectly acceptable as well as GoJet and any other cut throat pay for jet time ambitions by any and every pilot group imaginable and the race to the bottom was 90 degrees nose down in full afterburner.

newKnow

That's a shame. Luckily, most everyone will be gone in 15 years and there will be no one left to complain.

newKnow

So, we can tell our Southwest buds we actually make more than them?

scambo1

At some level, that is what he's sayin.

Scoop

Hockey,

I was furloughed from DAL when JC penned the "letter." At the same time ASA was hiring DAL guys - without requiring resignation. I say we should learn from our mistakes and also never forget that the Comair Pilot group tried to leverage the misfortunes of the junior DAL Pilots into political clout. I do however, make a distinction between Pilot groups and individual Pilots. Judging by his posts I think Boomer is the kind of guy we would like to have around here.

Even though I was very unhappy with the Comair Pilot groups antics and have no love for the Comair Pilots as a group- I will continue to judge individuals individually. Sounds like Boomer was not even on board when all this went down.

Boomer - Hang in there. Try to use your former military contacts to get your foot in the door.

Scoop

sailingfun

Do you see anywhere in the post where I say that?

Check Essential

If you were hired in 2003 then you are not stained by the whole unpleasantness of Lawson and the RJDC. You are an innocent bystander.

I don't have any career advice re: GoJet but the people who do the hiring at Delta are pretty well informed. They would certainly be aware that you had nothing to do with the strike or the other controversial events we're discussing.

shiznit

+1 Scambo.

sailingfun

[QUOTE=gloopy;1062212]True. He also hinted that larger RJ's were on the table as well, like the 90 seaters flying around with 76 seats in a 2 class management preferred config that eventually hapened anyway.

Comair management had a long standing policy that they didn't always enforce that required seniority resignation. Ironically it is the exact same policy DL itself had and still does.

ASA management had no such policy.

DL went to the ASA and Comair MEC's, both of which were in on the PID and passively agressively supporting the RJDC by the way, and told them to ask their managements to hire without seniority resignation or they would be punished. The ASA MEC said "yeah sure whatever dood its already existing policy so whatever" and the CMR MEC puffed up their chests and acted like they had leverage they never did. Plenty of arrogance to go around.

Then when the dust settled, the ASA pilot group was acting like they stepped up and helped brothers in need with a valliant effort when they in fact actively did nothing (as a group) and the DL MEC had the scapegoat they needed to distract their membership from the catestrophic scope failures C2K allowed as DCI went on a multi thousand pilot hiring fest in addition to putting the DL mainline seniority resignation policy itself that was actually harming the furloughed pilots behind the political smokescreen they needed so it didn't have to be directly addressed.

Where do you make this stuff up from??

Or they will be punished? Total BS. The Delta MEC approached the Comair MEC and simply asked they they drop their policy on seniority resignation in return for preferential hiring at Delta. Nothing more or less.
Here is the letter straight from Lawson mouth. If anything you state was remotely true Lawson would have been screaming it in this letter and every other communication. He did not because your statement is fiction.

TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATE: December 16, 2002

Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.

The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.

The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.

We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.

We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.

We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.

At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.

Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.

Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY 41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533

newKnow

No, sir. I do not. What is your post saying?