Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-22-2009, 06:13 AM
#7451
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
(1) Well Jerry Atkin has been saying for 7 years that he thinks scope clauses will be gone within a couple of years. He was spouting off in 2002 about how he saw that scope clauses would not even exist within a couple of years and you can see how that has worked out.
(2) Sure they have been relaxed due to CH11 and the 1113 deal, but they are still there. He is a smart guy and he runs a good airline, but he's dreaming to think SkyWest will operate anything larger than a 76 seat jet for Delta.
(2) Sure they have been relaxed due to CH11 and the 1113 deal, but they are still there. He is a smart guy and he runs a good airline, but he's dreaming to think SkyWest will operate anything larger than a 76 seat jet for Delta.
2002 - Orders first 70 seat jet
- Regional Airline of the Year by Air Transport World magazine
- Earnings $66,787,000 on revenues of $888,026,000; 10.7 million passengers
2006 - Takes delivery of Bombardier's 250th 70 seat RJ
2007 - Votes to remain "UNION FREE!"
2008 - Earnings $112,900,000.00 on $3,500,000,000.00 in revenue*
* Brad Rich was complaining because the the 2008 numbers were below expectations
All I can say is I hope in six years Delta grows by two hundred and sixty six percent and my earnings double. If things worked out for me as my union has made things work out for Jerry, I'd be one very happy man.
(2) ALPA was all about selling scope prior to bankruptcy. Our C2K scope which forms the basis for the whole outsourcing plan started coming off some of the Company's most profitable years. At NWA the ziplines show ALPA going to management with scope relaxation years before bankruptcy.
Frankly, this crap started with Babbitt and the current form of our scope was first seen at US Airways. It has a long, long, history of failure, yet we keep doing what we've been doing.
... que Sailingfun to come chop my head off in 3, 2, 1 ..... Yeah, I'm grumpy today.
05-22-2009, 06:40 AM
#7452
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
I'm talking a winning Powerball or MegaMillions ticket here. Powerball is $192 Million tomorrow and MegaMillions was $227 Million a few weeks ago. If they gave all of us $192 Million then they can have whatever they want in section 1. They will never do that, so my point was that there is NOTHING they can offer that will tempt me to vote for more scope concessions, NOTHING.
05-22-2009, 06:44 AM
#7453
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
(1) It worked out great! In the period of time you mention, Jerry's airline has grown by two hundred and sixty four percent thanks entirely to outsourcing of larger RJ's at United and Delta.
2002 - Orders first 70 seat jet
- Regional Airline of the Year by Air Transport World magazine
- Earnings $66,787,000 on revenues of $888,026,000; 10.7 million passengers
2006 - Takes delivery of Bombardier's 250th 70 seat RJ
2007 - Votes to remain "UNION FREE!"
2008 - Earnings $112,900,000.00 on $3,500,000,000.00 in revenue*
* Brad Rich was complaining because the the 2008 numbers were below expectations
All I can say is I hope in six years Delta grows by two hundred and sixty six percent and my earnings double. If things worked out for me as my union has made things work out for Jerry, I'd be one very happy man.
(2) ALPA was all about selling scope prior to bankruptcy. Our C2K scope which forms the basis for the whole outsourcing plan started coming off some of the Company's most profitable years. At NWA the ziplines show ALPA going to management with scope relaxation years before bankruptcy.
Frankly, this crap started with Babbitt and the current form of our scope was first seen at US Airways. It has a long, long, history of failure, yet we keep doing what we've been doing.
... que Sailingfun to come chop my head off in 3, 2, 1 ..... Yeah, I'm grumpy today.
2002 - Orders first 70 seat jet
- Regional Airline of the Year by Air Transport World magazine
- Earnings $66,787,000 on revenues of $888,026,000; 10.7 million passengers
2006 - Takes delivery of Bombardier's 250th 70 seat RJ
2007 - Votes to remain "UNION FREE!"
2008 - Earnings $112,900,000.00 on $3,500,000,000.00 in revenue*
* Brad Rich was complaining because the the 2008 numbers were below expectations
All I can say is I hope in six years Delta grows by two hundred and sixty six percent and my earnings double. If things worked out for me as my union has made things work out for Jerry, I'd be one very happy man.
(2) ALPA was all about selling scope prior to bankruptcy. Our C2K scope which forms the basis for the whole outsourcing plan started coming off some of the Company's most profitable years. At NWA the ziplines show ALPA going to management with scope relaxation years before bankruptcy.
Frankly, this crap started with Babbitt and the current form of our scope was first seen at US Airways. It has a long, long, history of failure, yet we keep doing what we've been doing.
... que Sailingfun to come chop my head off in 3, 2, 1 ..... Yeah, I'm grumpy today.
(2) Your right, but the recent round of bankruptcies sure sped up the plan of managment to give more flying to DCI and Airlink.
05-22-2009, 02:15 PM
#7454
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I ask, if this administration is concerned about scope, then why have they been saying scope is dead.
Problem is that regionals need bigger jets to keep their costs down. They will be pushing very hard for 100 seats at the DCI level. It is only a matter of time.
Problem is that regionals need bigger jets to keep their costs down. They will be pushing very hard for 100 seats at the DCI level. It is only a matter of time.
05-22-2009, 02:19 PM
#7455
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
acl...when you refer to the administration who are you referring to? Thanks
05-22-2009, 02:25 PM
#7456
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Not the MEC chair. He would not say that.
It is in reference to the pilots that are in the crew lounge when they are taking questions.
Two years ago, I had one tell me that scope was dead. It was something that was a battle that could not be won. I respectfully told him that without a iron clad section 1 the remainder of the contract is worthless.
After the last scope issue, I have hope that the MEC understands that all pilots, not just junior ones are sick of selling scope for gains that can be lost at a later date.
It is in reference to the pilots that are in the crew lounge when they are taking questions.
Two years ago, I had one tell me that scope was dead. It was something that was a battle that could not be won. I respectfully told him that without a iron clad section 1 the remainder of the contract is worthless.
After the last scope issue, I have hope that the MEC understands that all pilots, not just junior ones are sick of selling scope for gains that can be lost at a later date.
05-22-2009, 02:26 PM
#7457
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Reference NWA Zipline October 18th 2004. My Captain upgrade (as well as that of about 300 of my friends) was sold for $15,000,000.00 in "bargaining credit" that vanished during bankruptcy.
All that bankruptcy did is zero out the benefit of what ALPA thought it "sold" but in reality there was no credit, as there never is in this business. The crappy scope, however, remained. The same logic applies with these crappy flow through arrangements that ALPA now supports as a scope substitute form of job protection. Lets see a show of hands of those who think management will keep those promises and flush their entire RJ lists for a bunch of pilots they have to train that cost more with more longevity. In reality these substitutes for unity offer pilots NOTHING in the future in exchange for scope concessions now.
By the way, two years difference in pay between right and left seat for the effected pilots is, ta daa, about 15 million.
05-22-2009, 02:27 PM
#7458
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
05-22-2009, 02:45 PM
#7459
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
It is a matter of time before they come asking. Right now they are saying they still want the 100 seat jet at mainline.
Look at this RAH deal.
60 Months
Well that just so happens to be about the time we should be wrapping up our new contract negotiations, as well as the debut of the C-Series jets.
I hate coincidences and these two are giving me a lot of heartburn.
As for a 60 month lease. That is incredible short for any jet. GCAS is doing the leases, which means that they are someone else's jets that need a short term home, or it is just bait for more of these things to come. Either way, this is not the norm by a long shot.
As stated 2 jets is a very inefficient fleet, even with the same type as the 170/175. Parts are a huge issue too. 15 makes it economically feasible but 20+ is preferred to make a fleet reach a decent level of efficiency.
I say more to come and if DCI can get em, that makes the deal so much better for RAH.
Also they are starting E-jet service out of HI. These guys are on the move. They are the SKW of a few years ago.
Look at this RAH deal.
60 Months
Well that just so happens to be about the time we should be wrapping up our new contract negotiations, as well as the debut of the C-Series jets.
I hate coincidences and these two are giving me a lot of heartburn.
As for a 60 month lease. That is incredible short for any jet. GCAS is doing the leases, which means that they are someone else's jets that need a short term home, or it is just bait for more of these things to come. Either way, this is not the norm by a long shot.
As stated 2 jets is a very inefficient fleet, even with the same type as the 170/175. Parts are a huge issue too. 15 makes it economically feasible but 20+ is preferred to make a fleet reach a decent level of efficiency.
I say more to come and if DCI can get em, that makes the deal so much better for RAH.
Also they are starting E-jet service out of HI. These guys are on the move. They are the SKW of a few years ago.
05-22-2009, 02:53 PM
#7460
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Not the MEC chair. He would not say that.
It is in reference to the pilots that are in the crew lounge when they are taking questions.
Two years ago, I had one tell me that scope was dead. It was something that was a battle that could not be won. I respectfully told him that without a iron clad section 1 the remainder of the contract is worthless.
After the last scope issue, I have hope that the MEC understands that all pilots, not just junior ones are sick of selling scope for gains that can be lost at a later date.
It is in reference to the pilots that are in the crew lounge when they are taking questions.
Two years ago, I had one tell me that scope was dead. It was something that was a battle that could not be won. I respectfully told him that without a iron clad section 1 the remainder of the contract is worthless.
After the last scope issue, I have hope that the MEC understands that all pilots, not just junior ones are sick of selling scope for gains that can be lost at a later date.
Totally agree, that without iorn clad scope protection the contract is worthless; with that said we are our own worse enemies...management always plays the "if only we do this(whatever this is) your job is more secure, you will upgrade sooner etc etc so we go along to get along hoping for the best. The aviation industry has always and will always have problems eg currently its the economy...there will always be a problem. Lorenzo gone, but all of the same type of players are here. The answer can only be the same pay for the same position and type of aircraft across the board...will it happen no, so be prepared for more of the sos.
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