Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
08-03-2011, 07:55 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Well that's no fun, what did T say?
BTW, I think I got a virus on my computer. Well I know I do. I blame searching for that perfect pic
. I have no idea but it's some redirect virus so every time I do a google search and click on the link it takes me to yellow pages or something similar. I'm on my 5th anti-virus search for the thing and no good.
BTW, I think I got a virus on my computer. Well I know I do. I blame searching for that perfect pic
. I have no idea but it's some redirect virus so every time I do a google search and click on the link it takes me to yellow pages or something similar. I'm on my 5th anti-virus search for the thing and no good.Seriously, sorry to hear you got troubles.. good luck with it.
08-03-2011, 07:59 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I live on the edge because you know, that stuff just slows you down. Gets in the way. You can't enjoy your time. It's not as much fun. And it costs money. Too much money for the amount of time I'd use it.
I'm taking about Norton Anti-virus and the like. I'm committed to free anti virus stuff. This isn't a new virus from what I read, just been redone to be better and people say nothing finds it and in my experience that's true.
08-03-2011, 08:06 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Uh...I think you know that your logic is beyond suspect. The ATI pilots will be getting a $50K+ a year pay increase, if not more, from what I can tell. Even hinting that somehow compares to a "one cent" raise is like saying there is no difference between McDonald's and a kid's lemonade stand. After all they both make money selling food and drink, do they not? Disclaimer: I'm not equating the ATI pilots with the lemonade stand, just the silly $.01 analogy
As for the "airframe" argument: that would have merit if SWA got the planes without the pilots; with this acquisition they do get the planes, but planes that are already pre-staffed with pilots to go with them. No "windfall" there. The ATI pilots get a large pay increase just for doing the exact same thing they were doing before. SWA pilots don't.
As for the "airframe" argument: that would have merit if SWA got the planes without the pilots; with this acquisition they do get the planes, but planes that are already pre-staffed with pilots to go with them. No "windfall" there. The ATI pilots get a large pay increase just for doing the exact same thing they were doing before. SWA pilots don't.
Herk;
I dont understand why you cant reconcile T's point. All fun and game southwest bashing aside, they have done very well as a company. It has taken time, but they have done very well. AT has also done well, but maybe not as well as SWA financially, but they have grown, their upgrades are not stagnant, they have a decent route structure: IOW, they didnt suck.
All the AT F/O's regardless of seniority (this includes the guys who delayed upgrade as a QOL issue, but who could hold captain) go behind all the SW FOs for upgrade for 9 yrs.
The pay differential T used is a little extreme, but it is to prove a point. Lets face it, as a W-2 employee, we trade pieces of our lives for dollars when we come to work.
When does the pay differential count? If you say .01 vs 50k counts as enough differential, then does 2k vs 25k also count or 15k vs 16k? The point is, money today does not equal money tomorrow. Seniority today does equal seniority tomorrow.
I just wish them all well, because while it doesnt affect me personally today, it can affect me personally later.
08-03-2011, 08:11 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
It wasn't.
I live on the edge because you know, that stuff just slows you down. Gets in the way. You can't enjoy your time. It's not as much fun. And it costs money. Too much money for the amount of time I'd use it.
I'm taking about Norton Anti-virus and the like. I'm committed to free anti virus stuff. This isn't a new virus from what I read, just been redone to be better and people say nothing finds it and in my experience that's true.
I live on the edge because you know, that stuff just slows you down. Gets in the way. You can't enjoy your time. It's not as much fun. And it costs money. Too much money for the amount of time I'd use it.
I'm taking about Norton Anti-virus and the like. I'm committed to free anti virus stuff. This isn't a new virus from what I read, just been redone to be better and people say nothing finds it and in my experience that's true.
Microsoft security essentials has vorked well for me and its a free download from microsoft...if you are on a pc.
08-03-2011, 08:17 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Herk;
I dont understand why you cant reconcile T's point. All fun and game southwest bashing aside, they have done very well as a company. It has taken time, but they have done very well. AT has also done well, but maybe not as well as SWA financially, but they have grown, their upgrades are not stagnant, they have a decent route structure: IOW, they didnt suck.
All the AT F/O's regardless of seniority (this includes the guys who delayed upgrade as a QOL issue, but who could hold captain) go behind all the SW FOs for upgrade for 9 yrs.
The pay differential T used is a little extreme, but it is to prove a point. Lets face it, as a W-2 employee, we trade pieces of our lives for dollars when we come to work.
When does the pay differential count? If you say .01 vs 50k counts as enough differential, then does 2k vs 25k also count or 15k vs 16k? The point is, money today does not equal money tomorrow. Seniority today does equal seniority tomorrow.
I just wish them all well, because while it doesnt affect me personally today, it can affect me personally later.
I dont understand why you cant reconcile T's point. All fun and game southwest bashing aside, they have done very well as a company. It has taken time, but they have done very well. AT has also done well, but maybe not as well as SWA financially, but they have grown, their upgrades are not stagnant, they have a decent route structure: IOW, they didnt suck.
All the AT F/O's regardless of seniority (this includes the guys who delayed upgrade as a QOL issue, but who could hold captain) go behind all the SW FOs for upgrade for 9 yrs.
The pay differential T used is a little extreme, but it is to prove a point. Lets face it, as a W-2 employee, we trade pieces of our lives for dollars when we come to work.
When does the pay differential count? If you say .01 vs 50k counts as enough differential, then does 2k vs 25k also count or 15k vs 16k? The point is, money today does not equal money tomorrow. Seniority today does equal seniority tomorrow.
I just wish them all well, because while it doesnt affect me personally today, it can affect me personally later.
Scambo,
That's a seriously good post.
08-03-2011, 08:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 218
FTB - I highly recommend ESET... I believe you can start for free and then to keep it 30 days later you have to pay! I've renewed it several times, excellent program and not bloated like Norton.
08-03-2011, 08:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,596
Just a point on the merger committee. I believe they have been up and running since before the NW merger. It was felt there is to much going on in the industry. By keeping them up and running they can plan and watch for contingencies. I don't think the company asked us to get them running and nothing has changed in the last few weeks other then the rumors here.
08-03-2011, 08:40 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
OK.. so if SWA makes $0.01 more than ATI, the ATI guys would be getting a windfall, right? I just want to be sure where you are coming from.
With that logic, SWA has X airplanes. SInce ATI will be bringing Y airplanes, the SWA FO side of the list will be getting an airframe windfall since they did not have those airframes available before the merger. How do you reconcile that?
And no, not related to Trump, but I live within my means so money is not as big an issue as it is with some.
With that logic, SWA has X airplanes. SInce ATI will be bringing Y airplanes, the SWA FO side of the list will be getting an airframe windfall since they did not have those airframes available before the merger. How do you reconcile that?
And no, not related to Trump, but I live within my means so money is not as big an issue as it is with some.
Where do you come up with the $0.01 extra equals a windfall? Monetarily the ATI guys are getting a windfall. That is just one aspect of the SLI and Joint Contract. They are also losing out on airframes to the SWA pilots over time. Do you suggest we are going to do the same? If so, we need to change bargaining agents RIGHT NOW and get someone in here that will protect and fight for both. That could be the DPA. SWAPA doesn't seem to have a problem fighting for everything possible, and you suggest that we might not be able to have both? I just want to make sure I know where you are coming from.......
With that logic, Delta pilots want X for a raise. You contend that to get any windfall, you must give up something else (like Y for planes). The DPA won't follow your logic. After a bankruptcy giveback is combined with profitable quarters, restoration or partial restoration is in order, not continued givebacks, which some on here suggest.
Living within your means is great, especially when someone puts the impression in your head of what you and they (ALPA) can afford. If you are told you can't make more than X per year, a safe person will not spend over it. The SWA pilots (and soon the ATI pilots), OTOH, make X+ per year, and enjoy their life, flying something half the size of your plane. It's ok to dream about making more, especially when profits and fees can allow it to happen.
08-03-2011, 08:53 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
08-03-2011, 09:02 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
We need to face reality. US Airways, United/Continental, and American will not have contracts before us. The Airtran pilots will probably be making the same as Southwest. We need to lead the pattern bargaining effort. We need to sign a 3-4 year deal putting our MD-88's on par with Southwest, let everyone else up us, and then sign another industry leading contract. We need to stop hoping the other airlines get contracts. It's not going to happen.
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