FlyingViking

Whie I agree with this, I also think that the last few days has brought about some very good points and facts. Imagine what this thread would be without the silly tactics from the ALPA lovers vs. The wisdom and experience of Carl. You're right, we need both, and the work in unity in the end.

Pineapple Guy

I don't believe you.

Jughead

Maybe we can get a "Latest and Greatest about Delta Contract" thread started. Agree this thread has sucked for 3 days.

Thanks FtB for the airport video - got my day started off with a good laugh.

scambo1

Her shorts are too baggy and that sweatshirt has got to go!

dragon

Agreed, I think this was all prearranged and now that SWA has a presence in LGA and EWR with slots they didn't pay for, there really wasn't much reason to deny it.

Rather B Fishin

Technically as you are so apt to point out, that is "opinion" not "fact".

johnso29

I wonder if this plus the unxpected early outs will start the hiring gears spinning again?

Columbia

And spinning for a looooong time (say 20 years or so).

caddis

Not sure which rep he was talking about but the MSP LEC rep has said this publicly multiple times. The latest event was during the week they spent in the MSP check in area. In fact he stated asking for more then 10% initially and 20% over the life of the contract will put the company back in bankruptcy.

PG there is a reason that more pilots are buying donuts these days.

alfaromeo

Okay, Carl, I was going to ignore your idiocy, but you once again teed yourself up here, so I can't resist. When United had their back to work agreement, they put the scabs above the 590 new hires that walked the picket line. Later, they NEGOTIATED to have the new hires placed above the scabs. A lawsuit ensued for DFR, Rakestraw vs. ALPA, and Rakestraw won in front of a jury (like TWA) and it was overturned on appeal. (probably like TWA). There are other cases that I am too lazy to look up now, but it has happened before.

I know you claim that there is a difference between US Air and our situation, but you are flat out wrong. I know this because 5 federal judges have said you are wrong. Their rulings consistently confirm that the Nicolau award at US Air is the result of a three party contract and it was accepted by US Air Management.

This is a quote from the Ninth Circuit:

The three federal appeals judges all recognize that the Nicolau list is the accepted award at US Air, that USAPA is free to NEGOTIATE a new seniority list, and that they have to represent both sides in NEGOTIATIONS. The seniority integration process at US Air is done, finito, over, end, conclusion, and any other word that means there is no difference between their list and ours.

There is nothing there about, well you haven't combined operations yet, so USAPA gets a free pass. Your entire theory of difference has been shot down in federal court three different times. Your posts run on testosterone and bull headedness coupled with attacks and ridicule. What you lack is any basis in fact to support your rantings.

ALPA is free to negotiate a new seniority list today. They could redo it by age, by height, by hair color, they could make all the junior pilots senior and all the senior pilots junior (Bucking, ACL you can stand up now), seniority is ALWAYS up for negotiation. It is difficult to do because of the zero sum game of the fact that for every pilot that gains a number, another pilot loses a number.

That said, USAPA has foregone all compensation increases in order to stake their entire Section 6 NEGOTIATIONS around NEGOTIATING a new seniority list. They have done that because DPA's attorney says that they can achieve their goals easily because negotiating seniority is like negotiating a crew meal. Just the same, no difference. Date of hire is the gold standard and thus impervious to DFR.

So, Carl, you once again miss my original point so I will state it again. I never said DPA was trying to overturn the seniority list but I can't rule it out. They can change their stripes in minutes with a stroke of the keyboard. As such they can be anything to all people. They say that they must complete their card drive by January to be ready for negotiations. When they blow that goal they simply erase it. How convenient. When they blow through the timeline to produce a constitution and base representatives they simply erase it. How convenient. If they decide they now want to negotiate a new seniority list they simply change their website. How convenient.

I said that I hear people talking about it in the lounge in DTW, you said that there were 5 out of 3100 pilots that believe it, a number you totally made up, but there are some. Could it be 10, 20, 30, or more, you have no idea and neither do I but you admit there are some. So it is not impossible that I overheard this conversation and in fact I have. Two other pilots have reported the same conversations. I heard this same conversation, yesterday when I was there. 'Hey, I hear DPA can get us a date of hire list."

So in every fact about this topic, you are just flat out wrong. EVERYTHING. I see why you respond with bluster and attack, because you try to hide your ignorance.