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07-21-2011, 08:39 PM

#71741

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

You say that the statute of limitations has passed for SLI litigation... but wait a minute.. then you go on to say that it CAN be renegotiated because your favorite example, USAPA is trying to do just that.... well... which is it? Personally, a group can try all they want to renegotiate the SLI, but I seriously doubt there would be enough votes to change it now... if that can even happen... but it is YOU that is using the fantasized threat that the DPA founders have some hidden agenda of reopening the SLI debate... yet you keep saying that it cannot be done.. keep throwing the mud in the water alfa... it hurts YOUR case...

Signed..
an independent fence sitter

So brings up a good point, can the SLI be amended or not? I tend to agree with Carl, I don't see how in the world it would ever be allowed to be amended. After all, who was it that put out the SLI? DALPA or arbitrators? So are we to think the DPA can plausibly undo an arbitrated SLI? How?

07-21-2011, 08:40 PM

#71742

Carl Spackler

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Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

We may not get to openers if this keeps up. A fractured pilot group, which is exactly what DPA and those who send in cards are creating,

So if you sign a DPA card, you're not only voting to overturn our SLI, you're voting for not ever getting to a Section 6 opener. I'd be so embarrassed if I was forced to make these kinds of arguments to support my ever weakening position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

may not have the credibility to demand significant contractual gains.

It's not any UNION that needs credibility, it's the PILOTS. When we PILOTS continue to allow our bargaining agent to not defend our contract, the PILOTS lose credibility. Our bargaining agent is a failure, unless you're Delta management. Then our bargaining agent is a dream come true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

Don't fool yourself, management is watching, they've seen it before and know the play book well.

Indeed they are watching. That's why they did everything they could to keep DPA off the property. DPA had to threaten legal action to get management to back down. Management knows a good thing when they see it, and they're not about to let ALPA go without a fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

We have a once in a decade shot at section 6 with a profitable carrier and the "just send in a card to send a message" crowd may be blowing it for 12,000 pilots and their families.

No, the "constructive engagement" crowd is what will blow it for the 12,000 pilots and their families. 25% of the pilots and growing, agree.

Carl

07-21-2011, 08:41 PM

#71743

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

Not true Carl, not according to DPA/USAPA attorney Seham.

According to DPA/USAPA lead attorney. He said "seniority is subject to negotiation." "Seniority is always subject to collective bargaining." DPA attorney Seham. Start about 4 minutes in.

‪Can't Take the Heat - USAPA in the Desert Part 5‬&rlm; - YouTube

It'd be far more interesting if it was a court filing to discuss and not a youtube video, is there one?

07-21-2011, 08:42 PM

#71744

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

With regards to the Captain filling out a card, Hopw would I know if that happened.

With regards to the ATL crewroom, Amway's not allowed in either. My understanding is that solicitation isn't allowed in a work area, and the Atlanta crewroom is considered a work area. That DPA was informed of that, but did it regardless. The CPO should have thrown them out immediately, but they let them hang around and solicit.

When I was at Coex the folks from ALPA came in to solicit us (via pizza parties) in the IAH crew room to join ALPA and leave IACP. They did the same thing at CAL.

So would this kind of law be a Georgia state law or Federal law that says no union solicitation in a crew room?

Last edited by forgot to bid; 07-21-2011 at 09:05 PM.

07-21-2011, 08:44 PM

#71745

Reroute

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Joined APC: May 2007

Posts: 593

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Now pay close attention ALPA legal: I know of NO legal precedent to overturn an SLI once the award has been accepted by management, agreed to be implemented by management, and the two airline operations combined. If I'm wrong ALPA legal, you have a great opportunity to prove me wrong. But just to make it a fair fight, go hire a real law firm to research this for you.

Carl

Would DPA's law firm count. According to DPA's law firm "seniority is "always" subject to collective bargaining. I'm just saying........

07-21-2011, 08:44 PM

#71746

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

I ask because if the company was excited about a fractured group shouldn't the DPA be welcomed with open arms and a DPA membership drop box be allowed instead of blocked?

Carl

07-21-2011, 08:53 PM

#71747

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

Strange that the guy giving them half-price legal advice (unless they win, then he gets back pay) says otherwise.

Actually, he doesn't. But this is just another example of your incredible distortion of the facts. Here is the video in question for all to reach their own conclusion. It's a bit long, but it's well worth the 7+ minutes. You'll see ALPA in all its glory. Distorting the video and Lee Seham's words by blatant edits:

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

Who should we believe, the DPA FAQ that says a list isn't changeable or their lawyer that says seniority is always subject to collective bargaining?

Watch the video and hear it for yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

Confusing, isn't it!

Only to the ALPA apologists who are trying to confuse an issue that is crystal clear. And that issue is: An SLI is not changeable once management agrees to abide by the SLI, and the two operations combine. Keep trying slowplay. You're unwittingly providing a valuable service for fact finding and having members reach their own logical conclusions.

Carl

07-21-2011, 08:59 PM

#71748

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For a laugh,

after about a minute it gets pretty good especially when it comes to arm rests, everyone rushing the boarding gate, overhead bins and the moving walkways.

07-21-2011, 09:02 PM

#71749

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by slowplay

The difference between Seham's comments and DPA's FAQ are not reconcilable. That much I do understand. One of them is lying and they are in an attorney client relationship.

Lee Seham is 100% correct, and DPA's FAQ is 100% correct. Totally reconcilable. Any viewing of the video in question and the DPA website will agree. Only the most venal of ALPA apologists could "view" it any other way.

Carl

07-21-2011, 09:10 PM

#71750

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

Again, Seham is 100% correct. He is speaking to a group of USAir/AWA pilots in the context of their SLI. In their situation, seniority IS negotiable. In the very next sentence, he says: "It is EXTREMELY unlikely though." Again this is in regard to THEIR circumstance. With regard to OUR circumstance, seniority is NOT negotiable. Why? Because management has agreed to abide by the SLI AND our operations are combined.

I know you know this, you're just trying to fan flames. I think most people see through this. Now as I've said before, run off to your ALPA lawyers and ask them to show you the legal precedent that proves me wrong. You'll be such a hero!

Carl