Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-21-2011, 07:06 PM
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Agreed. The comparison had a lot of great facts. But, failed to tie it all together as a total compensation package comparison. I suspect, because that is more complex, and because they were intentionally aiming for that.
07-21-2011, 07:16 PM
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What troubles me is that you are either now or once was a high up DALPA insider. I worry that your fellow insiders actually fell for this when you used it on them. It's embarrassing to think of how you must look in front of management.
Carl
07-21-2011, 07:24 PM
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Carl
07-21-2011, 07:28 PM
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Let me rephrase. I shouldn't have said "asking for." He expressed his opinion that he wouldn't expect anything more than 10%. Sorry for the wording.
Last edited by johnso29; 07-22-2011 at 01:38 AM.
07-21-2011, 07:36 PM
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Carl
07-21-2011, 07:39 PM
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My Thoughts
Exeagle,
You have got to be kidding, 10% not feasible, I hope this guy was joking. So if he does not even think we can ask for 10% what does he think is reasonable, a COLA?
I see a lot of guys say, "My minimum acceptable % pay-rate increase is xxx - which I think is also pretty unrealistic. Because how can you have a minimum acceptable pay-rate increase without knowing what the rest of the contract says? Clearly, one can only make a educated decision when taking the "whole" contract into account.
While we are discussing minimum acceptable payrate increases I have a question for anyone who knows the answer - "What exactly does minimum acceptable payrate increase mean to most guys?"
Anything less is a no vote?
You would be willing to strike over anything less?
You would be willing to walk away from the company for anything less?
I told this story before - I was flying with a CAPT who said his minimum payrate was C2000 rates. I asked him if he would strike over that. He said no. Hmmm???
All this reminds me of a line from Sean Connery's character in The Untouchables, when speaking to Kevin Costner's Elliot Ness - "What are you prepared to do about it?"
What are we prepared to do about it? What is DALPA prepared to do about it? I don't remember the time-line exactly from C2000, but shouldn't we be aggressively gearing up with strike preparedness committees and such? Or are we going to start out with a different tactic this time?
The company is not just going to give us a 35% pay-raise because we are nice guys. And if we are not willing to risk anything - I doubt we will get much.
Food for thought.
Scoop
PS - With everything I said above about the contract as a whole it would be pretty hard to make a 10% raise anything but an insult.
You have got to be kidding, 10% not feasible, I hope this guy was joking. So if he does not even think we can ask for 10% what does he think is reasonable, a COLA?
I see a lot of guys say, "My minimum acceptable % pay-rate increase is xxx - which I think is also pretty unrealistic. Because how can you have a minimum acceptable pay-rate increase without knowing what the rest of the contract says? Clearly, one can only make a educated decision when taking the "whole" contract into account.
While we are discussing minimum acceptable payrate increases I have a question for anyone who knows the answer - "What exactly does minimum acceptable payrate increase mean to most guys?"
Anything less is a no vote?
You would be willing to strike over anything less?
You would be willing to walk away from the company for anything less?
I told this story before - I was flying with a CAPT who said his minimum payrate was C2000 rates. I asked him if he would strike over that. He said no. Hmmm???
All this reminds me of a line from Sean Connery's character in The Untouchables, when speaking to Kevin Costner's Elliot Ness - "What are you prepared to do about it?"
What are we prepared to do about it? What is DALPA prepared to do about it? I don't remember the time-line exactly from C2000, but shouldn't we be aggressively gearing up with strike preparedness committees and such? Or are we going to start out with a different tactic this time?
The company is not just going to give us a 35% pay-raise because we are nice guys. And if we are not willing to risk anything - I doubt we will get much.
Food for thought.
Scoop
PS - With everything I said above about the contract as a whole it would be pretty hard to make a 10% raise anything but an insult.
You asked the question, so here's my answer : I wish Buzz would wordsmith it for me. I spent more than a few years of my career wishing for the DAL contract at my former employer; all the while my very senior 1011 A, father-in-law had a glorious career looking down at me, and other mere mortals.
Along comes 9/11 and a confluence of bad economics and decision making, and my freight brothers and I became the industry leaders....by default.
Fast forward, DAL gave me a wonderful opportunity to continue my chosen profession, but it is now a shadow of past times. It will not affect me nearly as much as others, but I will do anything to restore DAL to its rightful position, bring respect back to the amazing professional airmen that I'm blessed to fly with, and leave the industry as a better place than I found it.
I will support the will of our unified brothers, and you can count on me to do that. Now is the time for all of us to ensure we have our own stategic preparedness funds in place so that we may support our union without having to make a bad decision based on economics.
We all stand on the shoulders of thse who came before us. What will future generations of DAL pilots say about us ?
In unity,
BG
07-21-2011, 07:52 PM
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Hey Scoop,
You asked the question, so here's my answer : I wish Buzz would wordsmith it for me. I spent more than a few years of my career wishing for the DAL contract at my former employer; all the while my very senior 1011 A, father-in-law had a glorious career looking down at me, and other mere mortals.
Along comes 9/11 and a confluence of bad economics and decision making, and my freight brothers and I became the industry leaders....by default.
Fast forward, DAL gave me a wonderful opportunity to continue my chosen profession, but it is now a shadow of past times. It will not affect me nearly as much as others, but I will do anything to restore DAL to its rightful position, bring respect back to the amazing professional airmen that I'm blessed to fly with, and leave the industry as a better place than I found it.
I will support the will of our unified brothers, and you can count on me to do that. Now is the time for all of us to ensure we have our own stategic preparedness funds in place so that we may support our union without having to make a bad decision based on economics.
We all stand on the shoulders of thse who came before us. What will future generations of DAL pilots say about us ?
In unity,
BG
You asked the question, so here's my answer : I wish Buzz would wordsmith it for me. I spent more than a few years of my career wishing for the DAL contract at my former employer; all the while my very senior 1011 A, father-in-law had a glorious career looking down at me, and other mere mortals.
Along comes 9/11 and a confluence of bad economics and decision making, and my freight brothers and I became the industry leaders....by default.
Fast forward, DAL gave me a wonderful opportunity to continue my chosen profession, but it is now a shadow of past times. It will not affect me nearly as much as others, but I will do anything to restore DAL to its rightful position, bring respect back to the amazing professional airmen that I'm blessed to fly with, and leave the industry as a better place than I found it.
I will support the will of our unified brothers, and you can count on me to do that. Now is the time for all of us to ensure we have our own stategic preparedness funds in place so that we may support our union without having to make a bad decision based on economics.
We all stand on the shoulders of thse who came before us. What will future generations of DAL pilots say about us ?
In unity,
BG
Carl
07-21-2011, 07:55 PM
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That is correct...until the award is issued, the companies are combined, and management agrees to implement the award. When all those things happen, seniority is no longer negotiable. If you know of legal precedent to the contrary, post it......That's his opinion. Many agree, and many do not. The only thing that matters is that our arbitration panel disagreed. Thus, it is now unchangeable.
‪Can't Take the Heat - USAPA in the Desert Part 5‬‏ - YouTube
There is legal precedent. UAL reorded their list placing strikers ahead of scabs (their rightful place).
07-21-2011, 08:00 PM
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We may not get to openers if this keeps up. A fractured pilot group, which is exactly what DPA and those who send in cards are creating, may not have the credibility to demand significant contractual gains. Don't fool yourself, management is watching, they've seen it before and know the play book well. We have a once in a decade shot at section 6 with a profitable carrier and the "just send in a card to send a message" crowd may be blowing it for 12,000 pilots and their families.
07-21-2011, 08:05 PM
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DPA FAQ's > There is a rumor floating around that DPA is seeking to overturn the Seniority List Integration. Is*this*true?
Absolutely not! That is a rumor being spread by ALPA proponents that is simply ridiculous. The list is permanent and not changeable. Anyone who is suggesting this idea should be challenged to describe a method for this to occur. They won’t be able to. The issue is dead and we are moving forward unified.
Delta Pilots Association - DPA FAQ's - There is a rumor floating around that DPA is seeking to overturn the Seniority List Integration. Isthis true?
Absolutely not! That is a rumor being spread by ALPA proponents that is simply ridiculous. The list is permanent and not changeable. Anyone who is suggesting this idea should be challenged to describe a method for this to occur. They won’t be able to. The issue is dead and we are moving forward unified.
Delta Pilots Association - DPA FAQ's - There is a rumor floating around that DPA is seeking to overturn the Seniority List Integration. Isthis true?
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