tim123

I don't doubt that for a minute,but at least they could use airlines that are still around.When I saw America West,I was also expecting to see PanAm,Eastern,Braniff ect in the ALPA comparison.You would think to spend all the time and money to put it together they would use airlines that are in business at the time of publication.

Carl Spackler

Good point. But we absolutely should be seeing the foreign members of our joint ventures. Air France/KLM, etc. Why didn't ALPA do that? I just can't figure out why.

I guess their contracts being in French, German or Dutch was a bridge too far. An absolute barricade for us being able to find out the working conditions of those pilots.

Carl

formerdal

US Airways operates the east side under the Us Air contract and the west side under the old America West contract which is why both are included.

Carl Spackler

No, they're included because their wages aren't high. Your same argument could/should be used to add Air France/KLM to the data. But DALPA didn't do that. Why? High wages and working conditions. You can't put them in the mix and hope to keep expectations low.

Carl

NWA320pilot

Exactly.....!

acl65pilot

I agree they should be included, and better be included when we are talking pay and bennies. With a Metal Neutral agreement with the likes of AF, KLM etc, and future JV's with V Australia, possibly Korean, and any one of those Chinese airlines, they do matter because the profits are split and the only thing that keeps them from outsourcing the entire gig is a production balance. Currently with the Import-Export Bank deals, all of our competitors get a huge break to buy American Metal, and we are left to buy the older airframes, or make due with what we have until the next downturn when the agreements can be amended.

FIIGMO

A Delta north guy was in the crew lounge in LAX tossing around DPA cards. He handed me one and I said no thanks I would like to have one after this contract negotiation. He asked why, I said "because DPA will only hurt not help at this point". Of course my opinion and I would like to see heat on DALPA to do the things right. I have said before there is no chance DPA can re-invent the wheel in time and not have the company use the DPA wedge to their advantage. Lets talk when DPA has more time to get an easy button from Staples. At this point he said something that blew me away, "so you are happy with the SLI?"

Maybe someone can offer me some guidance but are we really, really being drug into a union certification vote on the SLI issue? Even if this is a small part of the platform, what does DPA intend to do with the SLI? Is this his dog in the fight?

acl65pilot

You make a very good point. I have stated this to many of my friends that are in DPA, but the overwhelming response is that ALPA has to go and if we take a hit so be it. Not what I wanted to hear, I wanted them to reengage and right what they see is wrong.

flyallnite

On paper, I'm sure we are above whatever PBS number is agreed to. But we have paid hundreds of widebody Capts and FOs to sit home for MONTHS with FULL PAY because DL couldn't figure out how to staff a bakesale let alone an international airline. How much did that cost us? GS's are flying out the door this summer because nobody has been trained. The rest of us are flying our cans off to make up, with that I'd agree.

Carl Spackler

I'm always skeptical when I hear these kind of anecdotes. This has NEVER been mentioned anywhere at DPA. Not on the website, not in person with any of the leaders. Nobody ever. First of all, it is legally all but impossible. Unlike USAir, we're already combined. Contract and SLI all done. Nobody in their right mind would dream of wasting one ounce of time or money attempting to change the unchangeable.

I'm not saying there's not a knucklehead or two that believe what this guy believes, but it's a huge minority and nobody in DPA leadership.

Carl