Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-19-2011, 05:15 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Saving money? Really? If they are worried about paying out sick time at our current rates then I think their idea of the next contract may be a little different than mine. Also, that sick time should already be in the annual expense column if you were doing prudent accounting.
Of course, the response is who cares, but the reality is that DAL is totally bottom lime driven at this point in time. If exerting pressure of our group results in one less sick out per day, it will be deemed a success because, at the end of the day, it is less money they are paying out to anyone.
Whether or not we like the policy is really immaterial to a company that is trying to eek out as much profit as possible to appease Wall Street. Again, if you are sick you are sick. I use about 50 hrs a year, and I have small kids that bring every germ home. I call out sick when I am not safe to fly. I make that call and move on. If they want to call me, fine. I will answer the questions, but it will not change how I use my contractual sick time bank.
07-19-2011, 05:19 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
07-19-2011, 05:26 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
ACL,
It always cracks me up when managers get upset about their budgets for things like unscheduled engine removals and IROPS. They seem to forget these are unplanned events, and while I do applaud their attempt at smoothing out the budget, they are silly to get upset when the unplanned things don't go as planned.
The memo should go to the birds, the gods and whoever creates viruses.
Do we at least get credit for the DECREASE in SICK TIME when we stopped doing a double red eye to Manaus? If you were not sick before that trip, you were before you got home.
It always cracks me up when managers get upset about their budgets for things like unscheduled engine removals and IROPS. They seem to forget these are unplanned events, and while I do applaud their attempt at smoothing out the budget, they are silly to get upset when the unplanned things don't go as planned.
The memo should go to the birds, the gods and whoever creates viruses.
Do we at least get credit for the DECREASE in SICK TIME when we stopped doing a double red eye to Manaus? If you were not sick before that trip, you were before you got home.
07-19-2011, 05:28 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Another big loss on "outsourced" flying, although this is own own subsidiary, so the losses are all ours.Now, lets see how much the Airport Board flips the property to the TSA for.
New on the HLN Channel, "flip this Airline Headquarters."
But this should be viewed for what it is, an ABSOLUTE STRATEGIC FAILURE by Delta management. They paid $2,500,000,000.00 for Comair, took a $600,000,000 strike, then got mad about that and decided to outsource their own subsidiary's work, destroying the value of their own asset. The real cost of this mismanagement is over 10 billion when the cost of the airplanes are included. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?
How different would our contract be if we had $10 billion sitting in the bank?
For you senior guys that think "scope does not matter" what about the idiotic things our management does to take advantage of what we allow? Our airline works harder at trying to figure out how not to fly, than it does running a good operation. The result is the loss of billions.
New on the HLN Channel, "flip this Airline Headquarters."
But this should be viewed for what it is, an ABSOLUTE STRATEGIC FAILURE by Delta management. They paid $2,500,000,000.00 for Comair, took a $600,000,000 strike, then got mad about that and decided to outsource their own subsidiary's work, destroying the value of their own asset. The real cost of this mismanagement is over 10 billion when the cost of the airplanes are included. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?
How different would our contract be if we had $10 billion sitting in the bank?
For you senior guys that think "scope does not matter" what about the idiotic things our management does to take advantage of what we allow? Our airline works harder at trying to figure out how not to fly, than it does running a good operation. The result is the loss of billions.
Like CPS and and Mesaba, DAL is shedding assets, not for a profit, but to get them off of their books. They are not worried about making money on these items, they are only worried about clearing them off the books. They are really cleaning house wrt to debt on the books. Pay attention to this.
The RFP is significant in my opinion, but there is something else going on. They are being very aggressive in dumping anything they can.
07-19-2011, 05:36 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
ACL,
It always cracks me up when managers get upset about their budgets for things like unscheduled engine removals and IROPS. They seem to forget these are unplanned events, and while I do applaud their attempt at smoothing out the budget, they are silly to get upset when the unplanned things don't go as planned.
The memo should go to the birds, the gods and whoever creates viruses.
Do we at least get credit for the DECREASE in SICK TIME when we stopped doing a double red eye to Manaus? If you were not sick before that trip, you were before you got home.
It always cracks me up when managers get upset about their budgets for things like unscheduled engine removals and IROPS. They seem to forget these are unplanned events, and while I do applaud their attempt at smoothing out the budget, they are silly to get upset when the unplanned things don't go as planned.
The memo should go to the birds, the gods and whoever creates viruses.
Do we at least get credit for the DECREASE in SICK TIME when we stopped doing a double red eye to Manaus? If you were not sick before that trip, you were before you got home.
As for your first comment, you are correct. They do have a lot of data to support a mathematical formula for "unplanned" repairs, and as a result of this formula, they have decided to pair down part stores, budgets, and staffing. As a result the reliability and on time metric are getting effected.
Reality is, over time the formula works, but not over a budget year, and that is where most compaines run in to issues when they build budgets with no wiggle room. As a result the varriances in a fiscal year's budget to actual need to be made up in other places. There are many ways to do this, but frankly, one of the quickest ways to rein in a budget to actual deficit is to take it out of a soft target. In most corporations that is labor. This is not unique to DAL or the airline industry.
07-19-2011, 05:49 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
I think a lot of the sick leave usage results from the decreased flexibility that the DAL pilot has seen in recent years. Our vacation bank pays so little, that in a typical vacation month with a week off a pilot might see a day or two less work, but with more unproductive trips.. and the rest of the months flying crammed into the remaining days. The odds of even getting a week you need is slim, and with the AE process, the chances are you'll lose it anyway. We used to have Authorized Leave, sort of like the APD except you got paid.
The end result being you can't get the time off you need for vacations, weddings, graduations, reunions etc... If you do manage to get a week you need, the rest of the month is unflyable unless you live alone in a trailer in the employee lot. Any system that allows a REAL vacation which is inviolate and a sick bank that pays out the unused balance and 4 days paid APD would probably solve a majority of the issues. For now, I have no sympathy for the companies self induced problem. I'm sure there are a few senior Capts that view the sick leave bank as a goal rather than a limit, and why shouldn't they? They are leaving soon anyhow and this is their last contract, and there is no incentive for them to work to the max... Like FAE used to provide. Many of them are in the process of launching new careers, to replace the lost income and pensions.
My advice would be to make this a job that pays better than the alternative, and provide for time off that is truly PAID and can't be lost. Otherwise, plan on paying out sick leave. BTW, we are not the only dept. at DL that has sick leave issues...
The end result being you can't get the time off you need for vacations, weddings, graduations, reunions etc... If you do manage to get a week you need, the rest of the month is unflyable unless you live alone in a trailer in the employee lot. Any system that allows a REAL vacation which is inviolate and a sick bank that pays out the unused balance and 4 days paid APD would probably solve a majority of the issues. For now, I have no sympathy for the companies self induced problem. I'm sure there are a few senior Capts that view the sick leave bank as a goal rather than a limit, and why shouldn't they? They are leaving soon anyhow and this is their last contract, and there is no incentive for them to work to the max... Like FAE used to provide. Many of them are in the process of launching new careers, to replace the lost income and pensions.
My advice would be to make this a job that pays better than the alternative, and provide for time off that is truly PAID and can't be lost. Otherwise, plan on paying out sick leave. BTW, we are not the only dept. at DL that has sick leave issues...
07-19-2011, 05:55 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I think a lot of the sick leave usage results from the decreased flexibility that the DAL pilot has seen in recent years. Our vacation bank pays so little, that in a typical vacation month with a week off a pilot might see a day or two less work, but with more unproductive trips.. and the rest of the months flying crammed into the remaining days. The odds of even getting a week you need is slim, and with the AE process, the chances are you'll lose it anyway. We used to have Authorized Leave, sort of like the APD except you got paid.
The end result being you can't get the time off you need for vacations, weddings, graduations, reunions etc... If you do manage to get a week you need, the rest of the month is unflyable unless you live alone in a trailer in the employee lot. Any system that allows a REAL vacation which is inviolate and a sick bank that pays out the unused balance and 4 days paid APD would probably solve a majority of the issues. For now, I have no sympathy for the companies self induced problem. I'm sure there are a few senior Capts that view the sick leave bank as a goal rather than a limit, and why shouldn't they? They are leaving soon anyhow and this is their last contract, and there is no incentive for them to work to the max... Like FAE used to provide. Many of them are in the process of launching new careers, to replace the lost income and pensions.
My advice would be to make this a job that pays better than the alternative, and provide for time off that is truly PAID and can't be lost. Otherwise, plan on paying out sick leave. BTW, we are not the only dept. at DL that has sick leave issues...
The end result being you can't get the time off you need for vacations, weddings, graduations, reunions etc... If you do manage to get a week you need, the rest of the month is unflyable unless you live alone in a trailer in the employee lot. Any system that allows a REAL vacation which is inviolate and a sick bank that pays out the unused balance and 4 days paid APD would probably solve a majority of the issues. For now, I have no sympathy for the companies self induced problem. I'm sure there are a few senior Capts that view the sick leave bank as a goal rather than a limit, and why shouldn't they? They are leaving soon anyhow and this is their last contract, and there is no incentive for them to work to the max... Like FAE used to provide. Many of them are in the process of launching new careers, to replace the lost income and pensions.
My advice would be to make this a job that pays better than the alternative, and provide for time off that is truly PAID and can't be lost. Otherwise, plan on paying out sick leave. BTW, we are not the only dept. at DL that has sick leave issues...
07-19-2011, 06:09 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Another big loss on "outsourced" flying, although this is own own subsidiary, so the losses are all ours.Now, lets see how much the Airport Board flips the property to the TSA for.
New on the HLN Channel, "flip this Airline Headquarters."
But this should be viewed for what it is, an ABSOLUTE STRATEGIC FAILURE by Delta management. They paid $2,500,000,000.00 for Comair, took a $600,000,000 strike, then got mad about that and decided to outsource their own subsidiary's work, destroying the value of their own asset. The real cost of this mismanagement is over 10 billion when the cost of the airplanes are included. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?
How different would our contract be if we had $10 billion sitting in the bank?
For you senior guys that think "scope does not matter" what about the idiotic things our management does to take advantage of what we allow? Our airline works harder at trying to figure out how not to fly, than it does running a good operation. The result is the loss of billions.
New on the HLN Channel, "flip this Airline Headquarters."
But this should be viewed for what it is, an ABSOLUTE STRATEGIC FAILURE by Delta management. They paid $2,500,000,000.00 for Comair, took a $600,000,000 strike, then got mad about that and decided to outsource their own subsidiary's work, destroying the value of their own asset. The real cost of this mismanagement is over 10 billion when the cost of the airplanes are included. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?
How different would our contract be if we had $10 billion sitting in the bank?
For you senior guys that think "scope does not matter" what about the idiotic things our management does to take advantage of what we allow? Our airline works harder at trying to figure out how not to fly, than it does running a good operation. The result is the loss of billions.
So let me just say that we simply have to stop outsourcing our once great product - for the company's own good. Management is in love with what they learned in MBA school...outsourcing. No amount of actual failure will get them to let go of what they love. We have to save them from themselves.
Once and for all folks: RECAPTURING SCOPE WILL NOT COST THE COMPANY MONEY...IT WILL SAVE THEM MONEY. They won't believe it no matter what, but a strike might be what's necessary to explain it to them.
Carl
07-19-2011, 06:12 AM
ATL A320 B
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: No longer MEM or 9, but still a guy.
Posts: 238
But, it happened to you mainly because our vacation sucks. You got 2 four day trips (lousy ones) paid, but it blocked out 14 days of your Sched making it impossible to create an alv line in remaining time. It has happened to me too. I cringe everytime I check new bids in a vacation month.
It would take your vacaction time for the bid month and use it as a credit value only, not assinged to a specific day, allowing the bid software to use any trips remaining in the pool to get you to the total credit needed for the month. Then it would drop your vacation days back on to any of your days off for the month.
Not a fix for everything, as you would need to have flexible plans for your time off since you would not know exactly when you would be off until the month before.
That, and "VACATION SLIDE" were nice tools to have. I think that the "slide" is coming back as part of the SOT changes.
07-19-2011, 06:12 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
As it was explianed to me, it is not the money involved in the sick time paid out. That is paid by a seperate account, and then reembursed by DAL each year. The number I heard for total sick time usage for the pilot group, is over 50 million a year. The real cost to the company, again as it was explained to me, was the cost of getting reserves to cover the rotation, and then not having reserves available for IROPS. As a result, those trips are getting covered by WS's and GS, which result in more money being spent than budgeted.
Of course, the response is who cares, but the reality is that DAL is totally bottom lime driven at this point in time. If exerting pressure of our group results in one less sick out per day, it will be deemed a success because, at the end of the day, it is less money they are paying out to anyone.
Whether or not we like the policy is really immaterial to a company that is trying to eek out as much profit as possible to appease Wall Street. Again, if you are sick you are sick. I use about 50 hrs a year, and I have small kids that bring every germ home. I call out sick when I am not safe to fly. I make that call and move on. If they want to call me, fine. I will answer the questions, but it will not change how I use my contractual sick time bank.
Of course, the response is who cares, but the reality is that DAL is totally bottom lime driven at this point in time. If exerting pressure of our group results in one less sick out per day, it will be deemed a success because, at the end of the day, it is less money they are paying out to anyone.
Whether or not we like the policy is really immaterial to a company that is trying to eek out as much profit as possible to appease Wall Street. Again, if you are sick you are sick. I use about 50 hrs a year, and I have small kids that bring every germ home. I call out sick when I am not safe to fly. I make that call and move on. If they want to call me, fine. I will answer the questions, but it will not change how I use my contractual sick time bank.
Carl
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