Originally Posted by shiznit

I still don't understand why the DPA crowd doesn't put any real energy into a signed pledge or "contract with Delta Pilots" that they take to each LEC rep, and if they don't get on board with it, start a recall process. If the DPA supporters are genuinely desire change to the point of actually taking action.

It will do a number of things, all of which will be good for Delta Pilots.

1) The LEC reps will understand that they have a large number of pilots who are willing so be active in their commitment to restoration and that they expect actions and communications from their reps that reflect that, if not then they will be replaced with a rep who is on board with that message.

2) It will show that the DPA is more than just a vocal discontented group of pilots, and that they are intent on taking action.

3) Give a "member-driven" agenda to the MEC to act upon. It is said by many DALPA proponents (and I am one of them as of now), that if you want to see change, go to meetings, send up resolutions, get involved. If 3000 pilots (and I'm sure many like-minded in all respects of restoring the profession but not wanting to go solo to get there) it would have potentially unifying results.

DPA propents better step up to the plate when it comes time for negotiations to ensue.....I still want to see 3000+ members volunteer for the SPC when called upon to send a message to DAL management that we are ready, willing, and that we truly demand restoration.

DPA needs to show me a "body of work" before I can believe that it will be better with a different bargaining agent. Show me some concrete examples of accomplishment, small at first and growing larger over time that PROVE to me that the theory and efficacy of their ideas produce results. I'm not voting for a group that hasn't proved to me that they can accomplish goals to improve my career as a Delta Pilot.

So far, DALPA is doing ok...Not excellent, just ok. The results are satisfactory for work outside Section 6, the communication to the pilot group on "clarity of purpose and mission" from DALPA stinks.

I think of DALPA and the "best contracts ever negotitated" argument with the investment disclaimer: "Past returns do not garauntee future results."

All I can say for DPA thus far: ...............................
DPA proponents better step up to the plate when it comes time for negotiations to ensue.....I still want to see 3000+ members volunteer for the SPC when called upon to send a message to DAL management that we are ready, willing, and that we truly demand restoration.

Originally Posted by georgetg

Here is the key: the NMB found RAH to be a single transportation system for pilot representation purposes. Sure we cant use that ruling, but that doesn't mean that their published findings are invalid.
In other words -- in order to rule STS the NMB had to investigate RAH and has published the "evidence". All we have to do is use the already established "evidence" to bring our case.

Why any of this matters?
If we don't defend the contract we have, what else is there to defend?

Originally Posted by Check Essential

ALPA will never file that grievance. Doing so could bring their conflict of interest into full view. A ruling in favor of our scope clause could trigger lawsuits against ALPA for violating their duty of fair representation to RJ pilots.
That may be the real reason for the prior scope settlement as well. If Moak had proceeded with the grievance and forced DAL to park those 76 seaters then the DCI pilots would have sued ALPA.
The relevant portions of our scope clause were negotiated without going through ALPA's stated policy of consulting with the RJ guys as called for in the RJDC settlement agreement.
Its a fine mess were in.

Now we've apparently lost the TWA suit. We're all going to get to pay for that too. ALPA's legal team is on a roll.

Originally Posted by georgetg

If the same lawyer team that helped craft Section 1 now advises us that the language is weak, something is amiss....


Either:

• The original lawyers did a poor job
• The current lawyers aren't good enough to get results
• There is a lack of interest in pursuing legal action

I want to know which it is and why.


Cheers
George

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

Shiznit,

I see some merit in your idea about widespread recalls. I'd jump on board with that with my reps in a heartbeat if I thought it would do any good. But how does that solve the conflict of interest with ALPA National and the info/advice/services they provide to us? How does it make what's best for the Delta pilots the #1 priority and only consideration with the union representing us?

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer

DALPA is broken. As another person here mentioned earlier the system in place at ALPA/DALPA is built to resist true change. Many have contacted their reps, gone to the meetings, tried recalls, ect only to be shut out/down. Its time to start fresh with a new blueprint for success. There is just too much fat and red tape to cut at DALPA. It makes more sense to build a structure from the ground up beholden only to Delta Pilots and Delta Pilots alone without having to tiptoe around the wants/needs of the connection pilots who are now currently represented by ALPA.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

Bar,

I don't understand your thinking on this. DPA's concerns on the language in the ALPA Administrative Manual seem legit to me.

Originally Posted by LCS25

I held out higher hopes for you than this. I guess that you are missing your ALPA work.

At least you brought me out of lurk mode. To say that the administration isn't using the policy manuel to their benefit in this instance of this NC debacle is disingenuous at best, an an outright lie all likelihood. Here are my predictions:

You will see two guys initials RH and BF run for negotiating committee. You may remember RH as the one storming out of the room when he was NOT elected chairman of a certain committee, sending the minions (defined as guys on ALPA trip drops with no title in the union) scurrying out of the room to develop a hasty contingency plan when the MEC threw them a curve ball. That left RH jobless, and BF is a rep without a council. I find it fascinating that the predominant argument against the donut crowd is "don't upset the balance so close to section 6", yet that is exactly what we are about to do.

Hey, I'm not saying that there aren't politics out there. Everything is politics. Just don't let the likes of slo, alfa, and PG tell you that this isn't.

Wanna hear more? Let's head to the national level. ALPA, the organization founded on safety, will soon have no national safety chairman position, or security chairman, or jumpseat chairman, or training chairman. These positions and responsibilities will soon be assimilated by much more qualified people: the top national officers mostly the 1st vice president. BTW, isn't it interesting that 3 of the top 6 are Delta guys? It would already be done already, except the EC summarily rejected the idea outright, forcing the national chairman to cancel the vote to change the policy manual in order to regroup, AND THEN SOLICIT INPUT FROM VARIOUS COMMITTEE MEMBERS. Funny how the input wasn't requested prior to trying the forced push. Expect this to be shoved though in the very near future, if it has not already been done. There have already been some resignations from key national positions who want no part of this. Reason cited for the change: streamlining of the process and cost containment. Real reason: sidestep of key individuals who are experts in the process in order to further agendas. Result: tightening of the power group within ALPA, and less checks and balances.

There is more, oh so much more. The irony: I am not a donut person. I am an ALPA person. I am, however, in the process of reevaluation as the developments at national, trickling down to Delta, disgust me. More resignations coming. Keep watching.

Originally Posted by Jesse

It'll take more than just putting two at each gate, but it's a start. A great number of them require remedial training in several areas. Last time I was non-reving the senior gate agent spent half his time trying to help the junior one figure something out, and the other half on the phone trying to figure out how to do something else. He completely ignored the line that was in front of him, even when he got off the phone as he had to offer reimbursement to passengers who would voluntarily take themselves off the flight. That he enjoyed, because it was something he knew how to do. He enjoyed it so much he jabbered with those who wanted to give up their seats as he rounded them up to one side. Yet the line in front of him remained stagnant. I watched all of this just knowing I was not going to get on the flight, but fortunately for me he gave enough $400 coupons, dinners, breakfasts, and hotel rooms that I got a seat. As far as a good business practice, though, I hope it doesn't happen that often (paying rev pax to miss the flight so non-rev can get a seat). What definitely happens too frequently is the display of not knowing how to do their jobs well while at the same time showing customers a decent amount of respect and appreciation. Would I want to walk a mile in their shoes? H*!! no! But that's the job they've been entrusted with and it's a shame too many don't do it better. Fortunately, the majority know how to do it well, and with a greater level of customer service. But those who don't really stand out and give the company a black eye after so many others are working hard to deliver as good a traveling experience as possible to fantastic customers.

Originally Posted by JABDIP

Doesn't this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^make DPA even more appealing?????????

Originally Posted by JABDIP

Just watch how many key strokes it takes to just check someone in not to mention doing something for someone that has a problem. I think it goes back to the IT being so outdated. A new system is needed badly that would simplify the whole process. Hopefully it is on its way!